The Bahamas Kite Race ...2007?
 

Have not heard anything about it...no updates on the site...?

I just spoke to Neil about this and sadly there are no plans for another race anytime soon. It is all about liability and the lack of insurance to cover it for this sort of event. When Neil was laid up for six months with a severely fractured leg it gave him something to think about and work towards. He worked hard and pulled off this amazing event without any insurance. If something seriously had gone wrong his business and assets could have vanished along with prospects for a descent life. Neil said that if someone else is interested in organizing such an event he would provide lots of information and advice towards the effort.

Thanks Neil for making history, a particularly fun and challenging event among the many that you have created! You took a gamble to create this unique experience, well done and thanks again.

nooooooo....

we need to get some kiteboarding lawyer to make some type of extreme release of liability

Do you mean like this?

http://www.fksa.org/albums/album146/10_G.jpg

From a writeup about the original race at:
http://fksa.org/showthread.php?t=865

In our legal system, waivers are good, solid liability insurance is better sad to say.

If nobody officially organized the event, it was just discussed on forums, etc., there couldn't be any liability.

Simply determine a start date and location, everyone is responsible for their own support boats and lodgings in the Bahamas.

People on the fishing forums do this for trips to the Bahamas all the time and there is no "official" liability.

There was substantial liability for the organizers. In our legal system it takes very little to get rowed aboard for litigation.

The logistics in such a crossing are huge. It couldn't or perhaps shouldn't be undertaken casually, i.e. a bunch of guys just doing it. For a handful, well equipped, funded and experienced, why not and have fun.

Doing this event for a bunch of guys with northerly winds with seas up to perhaps exceeding 15 ft. is dangerous. Not only for the riders but even for the support boats. Boats could be lost in such seas, whoops! Keeping track of everyone is essential, riders and boats. Even with just two riders per boat and 17 boats scattered across the Straits, keeping track of things as originally approached was infeasible. Line of sight VHF radios wouldn't maintain reliable contact between riders, support boats and the committee boat. A full scale USCG search could result with liability for the participants and any organizers that might be identified. Then there is general civil liability which I could go on about for quite a while but choose not to. Good thing.

This isn't a minor undertaking in any sense. There is a lot of risk for participants and organizers. If it could effectively be done as a casual get together you might be able to dodge some liability. In this case the organizational demands for reasonable safety and odds of successful completion take things beyond that approach in my opinion.

Rick- I put in Emails to First Flight insurance and IKO to see if this event (and others) would be covered. I will let you know what I find out ASAP. The info I reviewed doesnt say anything about special events or races, so it will be interesting to hear what they have to say.
I have also heard a rumor that IKO is going to offer school insurance in the USA. Maybe with a little friendly competition, FF will have to lower their rates!!!

Thanks, it will be interesting to hear what they have to say. I approached First Flight about this a couple of years ago and IKO last year. At the time FF wasn't interested in insuring events but perhaps that position has changed hope so. IKO was insured through Zurich, out of Europe not the USA at the time. I tried to arrange for event coverage through them. They claimed not to know what an additional insured was or to recognize the need for handing out insurance certificates to such parties. Only about 100,000 of these certificates get sent all over the USA daily by insurance companies I would imagine. At any event if Zurich/IKO come up with something useable it would be a very good thing. Fingers crossed on the outcome of your inquiry Stevil.

Rick- Here's what I got back from Clint at First Flight-
PASA instruction schools are covered for liability arising out of teaching activities. I believe I have discussed the coverage for an event such as this in the past. If a PASA school was involved, we would submit an event application to underwriters to obtain quotes for coverage. It may or may not be insurable depending on the specifics of the event.

And from Suedwestring-

Dear Steve,

I´m sorry but we can`t insure risks, and no races in USA...

For an offer for your school you have to contact IKO directly.


(Sounds like we need to find a kiteboardin' underwriter, huh?)


OR- We just hang it up and remember just how awesome this event was, and thank Neil for creating kiteboarding history(once again).Cheers, you crazy mutha!!!!

Does any one want to the the crossing anyways, maybe 2 boats 4 riders...not taken lightly.

or some nice long Miami to the keys down winder?

Hello Steve,

Thanks for passing on the information. I didn't know that First Flight would entertain a rider for an event hosted by a certified instructor or school. That is good to know. I thought the IKO insurer had rating or coverage issues in the USA limiting usefulness of the insurance. I used to get coverage fairly easily through K & K and reasonably too for events. No longer I am afraid. Outfitters Insurance claims to write such coverage. Then again the last time I asked for a quote, I received it 3 months later and at a cost many times more than we could consider.

I thought it would be fun to do a run from the middle Keys to Bimini in a SE wind. Nothing nuclear wx-wise and as the wind is largely going with the current we shouldn't have the insane seas and boat sinking hazard to deal with. I don't have a boat anymore, fortunately, but would be interested in riding in a casual crossing with a few kiters.

Kiteboarding Lawyer Found
 

In DC but willing to help. Back sunday. Let me know. L
Lawrence Caplan

-----Original Message-----
From: CBIANDREA@aol.com

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:38:09
To:Intltaxcorplaw@aol.com
Subject: Kiteboarding lawyer needed.....


Click here: The Bahamas Kite Race ...2007? - FKA Kiteboarding Forums <http://fksa.org/showthread.php?t=4173>

Hello Lawrence,

Thank you for getting in touch. Neil would be a good first point of contact regarding a possible future event. He didn't seem real anxious to undertake all the risk of this great event again anytime soon when I last spoke to him about it. Then again if an effective program could be pulled together for risk management, Neil or perhaps another organizer might step up. A big part of RM is reasonable liability insurance coverage. This doesn't seem to be available at present, "there's no market" or as of my last inquiry. If you have ideas in that area it would be great to hear them.

Another part of RM are proper disclosures and well crafted waivers. Perhaps you could help with these areas. You can see the waiver that Neil worked up for the race in 2005 higher up in this post. I don't believe he had legal counsel on the final form of this form. Your ideas along those lines would be most welcome. Also, any other suggestions you might have to make this undertaking more realistic and palatable from a liability standpoint for organizers and sponsors would be gratefully received.

Thanks!

Bimini Crossing
 

Ive been wanting to do something like that for a while now. Tell me when you got a group together Mikerooka@yahoo.com

Never heard anything from Lawrence. So, it would seem to be back to a few folks getting together privately to do a crossing or for some other concern to organize a more wide open event.

Any interest out there?

If we can't get a crossing, a huge downwinder would be fun. Maybe not even a race, just a huge long session.

..BUT, if we can't get a crossing because noone will insure within the US, what if it originated in the Bahamas and came back? Is it possible to get insured that way?

just my thoughts

A large downwinder was fun such as Neil organized last year from Jupiter to Ft. Lauderdale. Not sure if he is planning another one this year, hope so. More about last years effort at: http://fksa.org/forumdisplay.php?f=64

It would be fun to try to do a run from Miami to Key West or vis versa. I am not sure how feasible this would be from a wind direction standpoint however. I don't think anyone has done the entire run yet successfully. The curvature of the Keys can be a real bugger in sorting out viable winds for the entire run from a single direction.

This question would be best fielded by an attorney. That said, here goes, if the organizers are offshore, the liability and lesser quantities of it may stay there. On the other hand, if some or all of the organizers, sponsors reside in the USA, it wouldn't be much of an effective means of avoiding liability.

We had a similar problem in finding insurance for the record Key West to Cuba crossing in 2001. They wanted insurance for the effort, but all I could find was coverage within USA territorial waters. Once they kited beyond those waters, the coverage stopped but the liability did not unfortunately. Good news is the crossing came about, with some injuries and damaged gear but fortunately out of control liability issues did not arise.