Attention Surfers!!!!!!!11
 

....

It is good this isn't an issue where you are Jayson. It is curious but so be it. Kiters threatening surfers is an issue, either actual or perceived in many other areas in the USA. What surfers do to harm their access is there lookout and welcome to it. They've been fighting access issues a lot longer than kiters have, say about forty years worth in some areas.

What kiters do to threaten our access is of more interest to me. I have heard lots of stories, many likely true that I will not get into here for practical reasons. They never should have happened, but did.

Perception is everything in our society. It can even have more impact than fact sad to say. Surfers far out number kiters and have been on the water much longer than us. Their advocacy groups are far larger, better established and more effective than anything in existence for kiteboarding. In short I wouldn't want to take them on as the recent experience in Hawaii supports. We have been working with Surfing advocacy groups to maintain kiting access. They were the first to pass along the invaluable information of the Pompano ban even before kiting interests.

Kiters need to keep their distance from swimmers, surfers and other water users. To do otherwise with our growing numbers is to beg for trouble.

I was speaking to Robby Naish about this subject just last week during an interview. He said we need to "stay invisible, have fun and work to protect access." By invisible he meant stay out of official scrutiny and ire. Pete Cabrinha has similar sentiments in his interview.

I don't consider any of this thread a waste of time. At least the parts working towards a solution.

It's obvious that some people have different views on where/when they can safely ride and how it may or may not affect our access. It's also beyond obvious to me that all kiters (they don't have to be on the forum) are aware of the prevailing problems in FL and the concerns that exist toward riding near the shore and bathers. We do talk at the launches and you'd have to be under a rock not to know what's up.
Despite being aware, some guys have decided our concerns are not valid, and that's their right. They feel riding near others is not a problem.
We can't force them to change their minds. One more safety meeting won't do anything. A sign stating a few recommendations won't either. A tag.. well, that might get jammed up my ass on a bad landing, I will pass on that one.
Until someone is willing to literally hold Jay down and not let him ride (never going to happen) he will ride like he wants. Jay is far from alone in his views, so try holding back 30 riders who don't feel it's a problem to consistently ride within 20 feet of shore each tack, get close to swimmers/surfers and other stuff. Maybe a few of you that don't ride the beach much are starting to get it - Most guys riding out there don't feel it's a problem to do what they want. Jay is just the only guy that has expressed this very common belief.
I hope that he is right and that I am just a nervous ninny. I definitely don't want to lose the beach, it's always been my favorite spot. But I don't think there is a point to fighting over ideas anymore either, since it's pointless.

scott, are you wearing your cranky pants today? There is so much negativity in this thread, i can't even believe it! Especially knowing that for the most part this sport is made up of a bunch of laid back, level headed guys.

Danny's post about the tags/signs working at EB, SW, lassing, etc. was totally on the mark for me. I don't think that anyone suggesting a tag system thinks that it will be a solution to people riding in swim areas or near surfers. Places like east beach and the skyway are places where riders of all skill levels congregate. People like Jay and Alex all the way to joe schmoe who bought his kite off ebay.

The tags/signs were designed specifically for those launches, not the gulf beaches and to address specific problems, not a solution to every issue we'll face. Alex-great call on the WSW preparty. that was a good representation of our local "regular" riders.

Scott- if you choose to wear your tag up your ass maybe you should head over to the backside more often. I think most people can tolerate a luggage tag attached to their harness. Lets show each other some RESPECT both on the forum and at the beach. That should be a great first step for all of us.

I am a laid back and level headed guy, which is exactly why I find nothing more than humor and irony in your posts.

I'll wear a Tag, a wrist band or even de ribbon, and I'd like to see us preserve access, I just don't think it will matter. I can't tell you how much I respect Jay for openly stating his position. He is one of the very best riders in our area and puts only himself at risk when ridding. At least he is not a hypocrite talking a lot about safety first, and preserving access, then doing the opposite and actively undermining responsible riding. If that doesn't describe you, then no worries. If you feel you're being called out then maybe you should indulge in a little introspection. I for one am going to do my best to enjoy my time on the water responsibly, have fun, and enjoy the good people I meet. The rest is a waste of time.

dontcha think?
 

Comment: Promote respect.
Action: Show utter disrespect in preceeding statement.
Result: IRONY.

Summary:

hypocrite:

Hypocrisy is the act of condemning another person, where the stated basis for the criticism is the breach of a rule which also applies to the critic and of which the critic is in breach to a similar or greater extent. A person engaged in hypocrisy is called a hypocrite.

I found the solution to riding in the swim zones!
 

Rode north clearwater beach today...

Turns out they mark their swim zones with giant telephone poles.

You think I am doing anything like riding or jumping near a 15 foot barnacle covered pole? Heck no! They have these things like every 50 yards or something.

No becasue I am scared to jump one while doing a triple kite loop handle pass, more so becasue I don't want to wrap my kite around it!

Now they just need to replace all the swim zone bouys down the coast with these things!

But not to be confused with the "idle speed" bouys like at Indian Rocks

kite free or die!

Not you Steve no worries there, and no one who has posted in this thread. Enough of this it is blowing, I'm of to have some fun, hope to see you all out there thrown it down in your own style. Give me kiting or give me death. Don't tread on my lines.

Unfortunately, we all share space and with more riders, it means more mistakes, more attention drawn to us, etc. So in an effort to be able to continue to enjoy this sport IMO, trying to respect each other needs to start now. I apologize for telling you to take your tag over to the backside. I agree that wasn't very respectful. But hey...we all make mistakes, right? Its just frustrating to hear someone with such a strong voice in the community be so negative about others' efforts to make things better/safer. For the most part we all have good intentions.
peace...

Ok, you guys finally won.

If we can't call someone out when they screw up (even though Crazy Jay admitted to it), we can't video them, and they won't do the right thing if we ask them nicely, then there is really nothing here that is going to change.

So, rather than swim upstream and always look like the dick for saying something when someone does something dumb I decided I am going to make a big change in my riding style and just go with the majority. Plus it'll make me cooler since I'll be with the cool crowd, no matter how ugly or kooky my riding style is.

True story:

Yesterday I went out to Redington to "share the stoke" and rode all the way down to John's Pass in the little waves 10-20 feet from shore. It was light and side off, but the waves were peeling in nice lines, and hell the chicks digged it, except for the old farts who complained when I buzzed 'em with my kite. WTF do they know about kiting anyway... I wasn't that close. I saw a few surfers and sprayed em a little so I could get mad props. Too bad there wasn't enough wind to jump them they would have loved it.

The cops didn't say anything to me and I didn't hurt anyone so everything is cool.

I can't wait until I get my tag cause you'll be able to read it from the shoreline next time I am riding. I can't wait. I'm dead serious. Just wait. It feels f@#$ing great I can't believe I was missing out on this all along.

Don't bother calling me out... it's against our only rule.

PEACE OUT

Have a BAN-tastic day, everyone!

say no to drugs

nancy reagan rocks!

Can't we all just get along.........Rodney King

It's like Rick and Kent sd in the recent Podcast. It is the top 10% that will ruin it for the rest. For a local ambassador of the sport to be riding in the swim zones with the surfers doesn't seem right.

Certainly, two riders with 15 yrs of training can find a spot that is less conjested. I can see your need to air-it-out for your old surfing buddies, but please. Do it somewhere else!!

Although i hear that Pinellas county surf rocks... not..

Days of Our Kites
 

Do I have to make another 'Days of Our Kites' post...? It seems like we have a doozy of an episode brewing here... ;)

Scott Wolfe and I got the green light from Superintendent Jim Wilson more than 6 months ago to put up a sign and implement the tags out at East Beach. We got the green light after much discussion on here about the signs and the tags.

http://www.fksa.org/showthread.php?t...ast+beach+sign

http://www.fksa.org/showthread.php?t...ghlight=wilson

(there is a lot of stuff there, but it's all there)

After many people put in valid ideas and we got the go ahead, several instructors said they would take care of implementing the ideas. They used words like ASAP and urgent when they volunteered.

Six months later, don't point the finger at me Amber and say my "cranky pants" is why this idea never got put in play just because I won't wear a tag at this point (are instructors issuing tags to newbies?).
These ideas never became reality for other reasons, none of which deal with what you and I did back six months ago.
Maybe the sign can still go up? It just honestly seems like no one cares. If they did, wouldn't it be up by now?
I know I don't care much anymore. I just do my own thing. My mistake was posting on here about it in the first place.

If you and Scott Wolfe got the green light and made enough effort to get Jim Wilson involved, then why didn't you just take the reins and run with it when you saw nothing happening? I admit, maybe I didn't push as hard as I could have a few months back to make things happen. But neither did you. We all need to stop pointing the finger and start looking in the mirror more.

So it's pretty clean cut Scott. You are either supporting these efforts or you aren't. You haven't even tried working with it and have gone as far as to say that you won't wear a tag. Like someone else posted, newbs usually look up to the more experienced guys and if there are some veteran riders that are unwilling to wear a small tag on their harness, then what do you think newbs are going to say? They aren't going to either. So yes, you are impeding the progress of people trying to implement the tag system Scott.

I know you are a positive person when you want to be. There is no productive reason not to support an effort to make things safer. If you have ideas as to other ways to make it safer to kite around here then the rest of us are all ears. I am open to suggestion and I think that *most* others are too. Maybe we should all just have that meeting that Alex suggested. No alcohol, no BS. Just riders getting together and sharing some ideas that we can build on. I think that Steve S. is organizing some meetings in the coming weeks. You should come, I think getting everyone together will keep all points of view visible and we can get to work on establishing some of the things that 'fell through the cracks' a few months ago, or something completely new that we can ALL agree on...and lets keep it positive! ;)

Quoting from those 6 month old threads Scott linked to:

I think that pretty much covers it.

Cool! Thanks Tom!

I will take full credit for the signs not being installed yet, please keep in mind that since the meeting, I have pretty much been on my own, and I do not have the finances to do this properly. Its not a 10 dollar sign, either, nor a 2.00 tag that will solve our problems. Its building something legitimate and long lasting that doesn't fall apart when the wind starts blowing. It takes the efforts of many, and I am only one person.Startup costs are not cheap, and I have used every extra penny I have to knock out these expenses as I can. My issue isn't time,motivation, dedication, lack of knowledge... its money. I know some have offered assistance, but I can't afford to make a mistake with Uncle Sam in setting up this organization, so I have not pursued it. Old Sambo is kinda picky about taking money before he says its OK. I am trying to balance my existing business,startup kite school, and a non-profit all at once, and make them all work LEGITIMATELY.

Believe me, if I had a fat bank account, this would have been done and in place a LONG time ago and we would be talking about the next great event, what we did to help someone, or what we did to impress the "officials", instead of slinging mud pies back and forth.
I really don't think I have gotten sidetracked by the wind, events, lessons, new gear, or anything else. Some people get excited about the fastest looping kite or the newest light wind boards or whatever- I do not. I get excited about safety, preserving access, and bringing this fine group of locals together as a group. Simply because thats what I know best... I look for solutions, and despite my clownish forum games, I think my posts have shown that, and offered some darn good solutions.
Something else I would like to say is that I have tried to find ways to make this FREE foreveryone and will continue to do so. That has been something VERY IMPORTANT to me and I don't know why. This sport has an average income of probably 60,000+, with kiters spending 2-3000 a year on new gear, so why do I bother? Because I dont want to be accused of ripping someone off or seem like I am trying to make a quick buck off of fellow kiters.If I did, I would be charging top dollar for a lesson and force feeding kites to newbies.

Signs and tags are the best idea presented so far, if you want something else, please figure it out.

There are many launches that could use signs, and the ARE ways to get them installed by working with the "officials", but getting on the same page is first. I don't think signs and tags will immediately solve ANYTHING, especially in the Gulf, but at least is shows an effort to unite.
I have other ideas to contribute,on keeping hot doggers out of the swim zones.
It has nothing to do with forums and calling out, but it does require unity as a group, just like everything else I preach.
It takes the majority of safe kiters to draw a line and stick to it.
More details coming soon.


About meetings:
I am preparing a post to call some meeting(s) to bring together the ones who have been helping me, and the ones who want to move forward.
My goals aren't a secret and never have been, and begging for help has always been a part of it. We need everyone's help by giving this a chance.
I am taking my time on writing the post because I don't want it to be overwhelming or piss anyone off. (imagine THAT!) Theres a lot of things to be discussed, and I want to make sure that everythings covered so we can all just get back to riding and being friends again.
Thanks for reading.
Steve Sadler (813)389-3683

Jackie Moon once said "Everyone Love Everyone!"

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...jackiemoon.jpg

scott- i certainly wasn't pointing the finger at you for the tags/signs not becoming a reality. All is was saying was that if this thing can come together again and take off, it would suck to have someone with such a strong voice in the area to mock the effort. Steve and I did product research for the tags,etc but we're both broke and just couldn't front the money to get it off the ground. They did have that meeting and a lot of the instructors did meet up. I wasn't there so I'm not sure what happened/didn't happen there.

Lets stop trying to place the blame on someone and put all that energy towards something positive. please? Making someone a scapegoat for a group effort not being initiated isn't fair. There were MANY of us that could have stepped up but that is all in the past. If the issue has come up again, its probably worth giving it a shot. it probably won't be perfect when it luanches, but there's no reason we can't be flexible with it...

spoke 2 a freind 2day.
convinced me that i am wrong.
swim zones r 4 swimmers.
not powered vessels.
my bad yawl.
kite safe
its cool
honest

Edit:

Steve,

I reread your post. Is it possible to request a sticky thread that shows your "business plan" and well as capital needed to make this reality? Being able to review your plan of action will help in shedding light and building community confidence in your plan...


Thanks,


Bryan W.

Right on B!
We all need to realize that kiteboarding evolved from surfing and that surfers in this area are very limited on choices on where to go. Let them enjoy their spots without us buzzing them. Since we are totally mobile and have the entire coast to ride, why don't we agree to not kite at Upham Beach and the other places they go. Give them space and respect and we can minimize confrontation, injuries, and bans. We have enough risk of that already!
On a downwinder with a fellow kiter a few days ago, we had the entire beach to ourselves, with only an occasional swimmer or body boarder in the water. The lead kiter would signal to the upwind rider the location of the swimmer, and then point offshore- as in "Thats where we need to be!" Since we already use universal hand signals for launching and landing, and know the right of way rules, adding another signal to aviod certain areas is easy. Let's try to stay out of any swim area with people in the water and make sure that fellow kiters are aware of the situation, before they send a big one and land on somebody. I don't think giving up a few riding areas is a big deal, either. We are unlimited!

Maybe some fellow surfers could chime in and give us the spots the surf the most, so it is common knowledge where we should avoid. Otherwise, if you see a surfer, please go around their riding area, outside the buoys, and we should all get along just fine!
Any local surfers that are curious about kiting, gimmie a shout and I will hook you up with an intro to kiting class at no charge.
B-Safe
Steve Sadler
(813) 389-3683
IKO Instructor #3481

I would love to Bryan! I am searching for a solution to that problem, as I don't want to put too much info on the forum, it contains some specific info,and some of it should not be public info at this time. If anyone has ideas please let me know ASAP.

send me an email at steve@kite4life.org to get on the mailing list, so I can get everyone interested in the same spot.
Meeting is definitely on for Sunday at 6:00 PM, location will be in central or south Pinellas.
Thanks for your interest!
Steve (813) 389-3683