Pass a Grille and riding there
 

This weekend I noticed several newer riders showed up at PaG to ride.
I mentioned this idea to most that were there that were new to the area, but figured I would post it again on here all the same. I have been riding PaG now going on 7 years for kiting and before that windsurfing going back quite aways. We have had a core group of about ten riders there for several years that have followed an "agreement" out there.

Until this weekend, I had never witnessed kiters or windsurfers enter the swim area where all the people hang out. Yesterday, I saw several riders going thru the swimmers repeatedly for hours getting very close to people and on several occasions dropping kites in the swim zone close to waders.

It concerns me that 6 years of kiting etiquette and efforts to stay out of that area to insure continued access might be risked if this approach continues.

Here is the situation as I see it.

When at PaG, nearly all the people are located in a fairly limited area by where the parking meters are. Most people are very lazy and don't want to walk 5 feet more than necessary, so it ends up being very crowed by the meters.

This works to our advantage, because about 150 yards north of where a lot of riders were yesterday there is relatively open space with very limited numbers of people (usually 2 people per 40 yards as compared to 2 people per 10 feet).

So beach goers laziness works to our advantage at PaG by providing a non crowded rigging and riding area for us to use.

Can I ask that riders in the future please walk the extra five minutes to insure we don't land and launch in a crowded area. Kiting is by nature takes up a lot of beach space. If a launch went bad yesterday, it would have been in a highly visible area and also may have adversely affected some beach goers... double whammy.

The riding in the crowded area was what really got to me though.
I just don't think there is any excuse for this. I saw several incidents that basically floored me, especially jumping and landing close to kids.

I want riders out there to realize that we have had zero problems out there up to now for a long time due to the agreement at PaG among riders. I only want for this to continue.
If we do run into problems, I am confident that it will be due our laziness to not walk the extra 150 yards and also our ignorance to ride in the swim zone of a relatively heavily populated area of our beaches.

Please just use judgment out there.
Thanks.

Well... here's my perspective.

At PAG yesterday there was a group of 4-5 riders who insisted on riding in the middle of the swim area. This was a crowded beach of 500 people and about 30 small kids in the 2 - 8 age range playing and swimming in the water.

(edited because I believe this issue is being taken care of)

All you have to do is ride outside the bouys, or walk 500 feet north of the swimmers and sunbathers (where everyone else was riding).

well.. i had just typed up my agreeing with Scotts post when I saw Tom's and now am pissed that anyone in our area would give lessons in an environment like that.

at PaG park at the most northern tip and just walk north a bit. rare to have even a single person there. tons of room. on saturday i had ample room to self launch.

cant fu*king believe someone would give lessons on a crowded beach.

removed due to Tom being loopy.

:)

Yeah, it was disappointing. The instructor agreed to move, and I think that was the right thing to do. The riders however did not... it only got worse.

Riding among bathers has caused kiteboarding to be banned at many locations nationwide. This is a no brainer, keep it up and out we go, pretty much guaranteed.

This caused kiteboarding to have been banned or come close to it at:

Miami Beach
Crandon Park
Rickenbacker Causeway
Hollywood
Ft. Lauderdale
Pompano
Boca Raton
Delray Beach
Key West


Maybe you'll be lucky and after access is lost you can negotiate for restored kiting with stringent rules like at Crandon Park, i.e.

Certification
Registration
Signing in
Helmets

Then again, that happens only if you are lucky after this sort of behavior gets you kicked out.

Think about it and choose well.

I agree...Scott, thanks for bringing this important issue up.

I've also been noticing a lot of questionable teaching and riding practices lately, specifically related to riding/lesson location and environment. Anyone reading this forum knows exactly what we are talking about here, which is not to say that everyone reads the forum. So, unfortunately, it is often necessary to confront people at the beach about this - not anyones favorite thing to do when they would rather be riding.

I'm not intending to blow my horn, however if someone is a certified instructor they should be concerned with this type of reckless behaviour, which can lead to being "de-certified". Maybe the fact that some "instructors" are not certified makes them feel that they can do as they please(?). However the situation you describe is blatantly irresponsible any way you look at it.

Anyone teaching, certified or not, needs to set good examples, discourage reckless behavior, influence students to be responsible in order to maintain access, and avoid situations that are prone to accidents. As Scott states - it's not that hard to follow some of these standards. Respect for these issues should start with the first lesson and should be reinforced along the way by the instructor and other riders.

One of my students went to East Beach (after a lesson with me) on a 20+ rider day to watch the action. They were shocked and appalled by what they saw going on there with respect to safety practices, rider etiquette, rider conflicts, uncontrolled draggings, kite-to-kite contact...WHAT IS GOING ON AROUND HERE???? I'd venture to say that all of this is unavoidable and unnecessary. I am convinced that the conduct of many riders is based on the direct influence of their instructor and the people they ride with.

As the rider population increases so does the probability for accidents. There are going to be some very irrate people around here if even ONE of the beaches becomes off-limits due to this sort of thing.

If whay you say iz true...someone shouldda taken video and sent it (along with an explanation of how illegal it iz) to eckerd officials. They are the ones that own the kites and would prolly put a stop 2that kind of behavior. Explain that Ecked would get sued in a worst case senario by an injured party.
Matt iz a cool guy and I bet he would be upset if he found out hiz students were doing stuff like that.

Sounds very good on paper and very easy to put in practice Bayflite. I am sure Matt and Mike will spread the word.

Thanks Rick for the post reminding us that no kiters have inordinate rights that supercede common sense.
If common sense and courtesy is not applied at PaG, it is very possible the authorities will enact some type of measure to ensure that we can't run into or land on a kid. It won't be the first time, as Rick points out, that lack of self regulation has led to loss of access.

Hopefully this won't become a big issue and will be easily resolved by just walking 150 yards.
Let's just not be lazy and put in the 5 minutes of walking North.
The area up there all the way to the DonCesar is basically desolate.

BTW the instructors are NOT ASSOCIATED with WSW.

Let's not forget this was a one time deal (so far) and that Mike stopped immediately when asked. That's actually why I never even mentioned it. I am confident it will work itself out. No need to get too worked up (yet). If it goes on, I think we should get worked up, though, and I will myself contact Eckerd.

After having said that, I really appreciate all the inputs and concern on this. I am glad so many people care enough to speak out.
I think it will be more clear to Mike and Matt how much responsibilty they have in their roles as instructors and riders and that others listen to them and look up to them and most likely will follow their lead.

Talk it out before you post
 

This is just my point of view but I think trashing any one individual or group of individuals for something that can be discussed verbally, especially where a club that could easily be shut down is every bit not as cool. These are posts that stay out for any and all to read for an indefinite period of time and could easily get the club shut down should the wrong people read them and misinterpret them.

I 110% agree that riding should not be done near swimmers because it can be a hazard to others, especially where newbs are concerned and that is why Erick, Roy and I rode Bongos where it is less crowded with beach goers yesterday. But basically pointing the finger at a college club instead of calling or sending a PM to a representative of the club and letting them deal with it isn't cool.

Lets get off the drama kick and focus on educating at the beach. We should all be using common sense but if you see bad judgement being used, educate in numbers, have a GROUP of people approach and tell them what courtesy is expected. But lets not point fingers...

I do not see this being any issue between individuals nor will it necessarily be solved as such. Personal issues - which seem to spring up on this forum all the time - should be handled privately I agree.

However, this issue potentially effects the entire kiting community here and beyond Tampa Bay.

Scott is one of the most highly respected riders here - and for good reason - he is interested in the common good for all riders. I support Skyways Scott's way of handling it. He has been fair with his information and he has wisely informed people involved and people who have an interest, or who may be effected.

I believe (and Rick I please correct me if I am wrong) that this forum was partially intended to handle issues like this.

If it didn't get personal then why were names and the mention of the club involved? You are here for about 25% of the year tops Roberto (due to your travel of course) so you don't really get to see that I am actually pretty good friends with Scott, my post is not an attack on him or anyone else. My post is stating that it is fine to educate and discuss safety but that singling out the club was not cool in my opinion. A lot of time and effort was put into forming that club by one person. It is MUCH easier to destroy that work than I am sure it was to build it...

I wasn't there, I didn't see what went on. But I think it could have been handled a little bit differently with names and associations omitted.

I understand what you are saying and you have a good point... but bringing flowers and apologizing for making them uncomfortable when we asked them for the fourth time to stop riding in the swimming area would not have had the effect we were hoping for. (joking) :)

I chose not to mention names, but the fact remains that these were club members using club equipment, and we asked them to stop and it had little effect. Scott even intercepted one of the riders in the water to get his attention and was basically told "no i don't want to" upon suggesting that he ride further north away from the swimmers. Not sure who this rider was (but it was not Mike)... as Scott said, Mike did the right thing and moved a soon as he realized what was going on.

Hopefully he will set the example out there next time and encourage everyone to ride away from the swimmers.

Toby, please read my initial post thoroughly. Not one name was mentioned.
People were talked to out there Toby. It didn't have much effect on some (excluding Mike and Al), so I was hoping a post would draw more attention to the idea and those involved would get the message.
You have been much more verbal over much less of an occurence (Skyway line tangle in 9 knots).

Let's just focus on maintaining access and doing the right thing.
In terms of friendships, in the modern era, people can maintain them long distance with stuff like email and phones.

whoa
 

First off there were no instructors for Watersports West out there, Steve-O is the only instructor around who works directly with the shop. They weren't involved and their name did not need to be dropped so harshly, they are one of the best resources around for kiting and thats that.

Now let me apologize for any of the riders in my club that may have been riding in potentially dangerous ways, such as a close to people or in the "illegal swim zone". The only reason i started the club was because i saw their were college kids getting into the sport and i knew they would hit the beaches in numbers with kites. I have been riding here for two full seasons now and wanted to bridge all the gaps between college riders and local riders, i do not want any college rider ever being responsible for a beach ban or an injury to riders/spectators.
Since our beginning i've actually posted this and our goals as well as all my contact info, asking locals to not hesitate to call if they saw anything wrong with college riders on the scene. We've hosted two beach clean-ups this year and are planning a third, we're also working on getting air-compressors installed at the skyway and a sign made for the bird nesting regulations against watersports on all gulf facing beaches at fort desoto through august. This forum is great but a problem can be solved much better directly rather than posting names and obnoxious comments like

"Will the kite club survive when the complaints start rolling in to Eckerd College?

Would either WSW or Eckerd College kite club survive the lawsuit if there were an injury?"

Scott thanks for posting this in the first place and doing it respectfully, tom appreciate your input, 203 918 6637, thats my number, dont hate. Rather than complaining to cyberspace call me personally and i will set the kid straight who you deemed as potentially dangerous or reckless. Toby thank you for defending us a bit, i'm aware of all risks associated and to bring up the club in this issue is not cool. We're going to survive and were going to be safe and beneficial to the community.

I'm trying to do the same thing as everyone, ride as much as possible, get better every time, promote kiting as one of the best sports in the world, and preserve our riding locations through safety, regulation awareness, and environmental sensitivity. We just moved into a house off of 20th ave in PAG, we're pretty stoked that we would have another way to provide local riders with perks, like a grass to kill your kite, outdoor shower, elevated balcony, air compressor, and just a general locations to start/stop downwinders. We also have handle pass/trampoline/and slack line, unicycle, indo board, surf ball, and standup paddle boards for cross training.
The guys got excited about the house and i guess rode out in front rather than walking up two blocks, dont worry this wont happen again. I was guiding a downwinder from north st. pete beach and was not on the beach untill about 6:30
I am a PASA Certified instructor, my paperwork is being reviewed right now, i've taught windsurfing, sailing, and wakeboarding for six years now and know all about safety protocol and eliminating negligence on the beaches and with beginners. I will be an IKO instructor as well by the end of this month. We're just trying to help and get our names out there to hopefully get sponsored.
We've taken leaps and bounds forward this year and won an award last night from eckerd college as the most improved/outstanding club of the year. If you have problems with us tell me and i'll solve it. I'm workin my ass off to make the scene around here a bit more organized, have some kiter parties this summer, organize owc trips, obx trips, and even one to brazil. I'll be living here all summer in order to plan for next year and plan with the bars/ promoters try and get us a better kite hangout, like ft. lauderdale and key west have. We're also trying to set up some other local boarder-x and course racing but were a bit hesitant because of the complaints from last years that came up. We're trying to keep things moving forward. If you dont like the sound of any of this PM me and i'll be sure to not send you the memo.
In the end sorry for my riders riding close to shore and around people, i've talked with them and they were doing it because the kids in the water and the spectators were asking them to and cheering them on. no one other than other kiters had anything bad to say about them, most were pretty stoked to see guys landing new tricks and what not. I told them regardless they need to be out of there and just walk farther north between the don cesar and PAG where there are no people. Hope this issue is squashed and sorry if any feathers were ruffled
-matt sexton
President of Eckerd College Kite Club
TritonKiteboarding.com
sextonmg@eckerd.edu

I removed the WSW comment as soon as I realized it was incorrect. As for the statements about potential complaints or accidents, I don't think they are based far from reality.

Not all of the spectators were comfortable with what was going on (they told us so before we confronted the kiters).

BUT, regardless of all that, you are obviously concerned and are willing to make every effort to prevent it from happening again in the future, and that is good enough for me and probably everyone else for now.

Thanks for taking the time to respond and talk with your members, and the fact that you are going through great efforts to get certified and do things right means a lot. Should anything else like this happen in the future I will just notify you directly.

Thanks,
-tom

btw, I must have ridden past you guys setting up when I was doing my down winder from T.I. (green waroo)

Hey everyone, I just joined this forum because of what has been happening in the past two days. My name is Alex Moore and am of the triton brethren. The initial comments regarding PaG are obserd. They were absolutely threats of getting an organization shut down. An organization may I add that has dedicated its existence to spreading the sport of kiteboarding in a safe way to all who want to try. All so that you "core" can claim to "care about the common good of all riders" by threatening to try to get a progressive, educational club shut down. I do agree we should not ride near people who are not comfortable with the sport. However I would like to point out that the five houses in front of that beach are college rented houses and most of those in the water were the friends of the riders. While riding that day I also had never recieved so many friendly and supportive comments from those bathing on the beach that actually wern't college and high school kids. It felt great riding into the beach and having three different mothers approach me, smiles glaring, asking me how long I had been riding for and when their kids would be old enough to try. Kiting near bathers is dangerous and a risk not worth taking. But when it happens once it does not need to be addressed like the yacht club trying to ban jet skis. Thank you.

A couple of things here. First, to think I made this post to shut a club down is disheartening. When Mike told me he was associated with the club, I was literally over joyed. Mike is a great guy and I know he simply loves watching people learn and progress at kiting. That's more off base than you will ever know, Respectful.

Second, it really doesn't matter if 90% of the people are cheering you on to jump 5 feet from shore, use judgment and don't risk injuring a beach goer. Most beach goers don't realize that the lines can tangle around a little kid and injure him, etc.
We always gets praise and hear "wows" no matter where we are out there. Its the complaints that are spoken at high volume to the authorities that matter.

Lastly, and again, several riders were approached out there that didn't respond. This post wasn't made prior to that. Many of the riders continued to ride for hours in the swim zone.

I am very grateful for Matt's response and am hopeful that he will do all he can to spread the word about the area.
I don't think I saw him out there that day or I would have approached him. I know we can all cooperate on this one.

It's a tad off subject, but in terms of future events, right in front of the Hurricane would be the place.
I talked to the owner about it 2 years ago and he and the concession stand person were in to it.
The problem arose when I looked into the cost of event insurance.

I am based here at least 5 out of 12 months/year, so unless someone changed the calendar to 20 months/year I'm here about 41% of the year...I taught over 100 lesson this year while in FL and this does effect me personally as well...but that's not the point...who cares, nor is it relevant that you are friends with Scott. I would be just as conerned if I only rode here 1 week per year.

I like Matt and Mike and have no doubt they are trying to do a good job. But it does worry me when a few members of the group they are forming seem to have their own agenda or their attitude is defiant, as seems to be the case. To suggest that this is an "absurd" issue and that it simply one persons intention to shut down a club is unbelievable. It really takes just one rider out there that systematically abuses our PRIVILEGE to ride at the local beaches.

We (kitesurfers) do not have "rights" per se to take over the beach and place innocent bystanders in danger. Most of the people watching us and cheering us have NO IDEA what kind of danger they are in until a kite crashes on them, lines wrap around them, or a board slams into them. We are all endangering people when riding too close...anything could happen: loss of control, gear malfunction, unexpected swimmer or obstacle...etc...nobody is immune to that.

In my opinion the individuals involved "singled themselves out" by virtue of their own actions. From what I have seen in the past, when issues are confronted anonymously nobody wants to come forward or accept responsibility...and just pretend like it never happened. I am positive that it was not Scotts intention to direct an attack on Matt or Mike or destroy the club. THAT suggestion is a bit dramatic. Scott is well-intentioned and simply voiced his concern loudly and I think it was very effective in bringing immediate attention to the matter and I trust that Matt has taken/and will continue to take the initiative to telegraph these concerns to members of his group.

When someone forms a group, there is by some logic a collective or shared responsibility. There is still mostly individual responsibility. Like it or not, if a group fosters unacceptable conduct, or legal issues arise because of one of their members actions...it could effect the entire group or the organization that supports the group. That's pretty normal in our society I believe.

I think that this has been an excellent use of the forum and that it actually seems to be having an immediate and positive outcome. Most importantly let's all try to have this situation bring us together instead of turning it into a personal issue that drives us apart. Please.

The Hurricane is the restaurant (tallest building in PaG) with the pavillions on top (and wind sensor) where people go to watch the sunset. It's about a 1/4 mile north of the Pass. It's my favorite place to ride in front of when the sun is setting because of all the spectators up top. If Billy Parker isn't riding with you, they might actually think you are pretty good and yell and shout when you show off your bag of tricks (in my case 5).
Then you ride back upwind when done, they whole while pretending in your mind that your the "shit", despite the fact that in the grand scheme of things you're really just an average joe tethered to a kite ;)

a word from mike hall
 

This Afternoon I walked out on to my balcony of my new beach house, and looked out to see that there was still no wind, but little swell. I asked if my room mate if he wanted to go on a paddle and he said he was down. After putting on a couple layers of sun screen and my biggest hat, I was headed down to the beach. My friend Stan and I started out are paddle towards the swim bouys then headed south toward the pass. The wind was starting to pick up so it gave us a nice tail wind to get some speed down the waves. Soon we got to the jetti and found that the current was ripping out. As we took the left turn inside the pass you could see dark shapes trying to swim up stream, but it looked like they were just staying in one spot. Since there was soo much current Stan and I stuck close to sand bar to avoid the deep water current. As we headed farther toward the sand bar I noticed an eddy in the current. The water made a small u and the headed toward the edge of the sand bar. This is when the work out really started! I hugged the shore line and started to head north. It was fun looking down under the docks to see all diffrent shapes of sheephead. By now I was up to the fish charters, there were alot of people sitting out on the dock about to go out on there own adventure. Is if things were not perfect enough a dolphin and its pod started fishing right in front of us. As we headed toward the PAG Marina the pod followed, a couple times they came in a paddle distance. By the time we got to the marina we agreed that we had to have a final race up to the bridge right next to SeaCritters. During the race people at the Warf started to cheer. By the time we finished the race we let the current drift us down to the marina. We walked the boards not even a block back to the house and called it a day. Wow what a day, I am just glad I didnt spend most of it looking at this.

Mike Hall
TritonKiteboarding.com
If you have any problems with me or my crew, call me. 727-667-5718

Today at PaG was awesome to see.
Every single kiter that showed up walked the "extra mile" and stayed out of the swim area. It was very nice to see everyone doing this and I am most grateful and impressed with our local crew, which includes the Eckerd College crew, the "graduated college 20 years ago crew", the "I'm gearing up for college crew" and the "who the he.ll needs f'n college crew" (s).

I had a lot of confidence that the outcome of today would come to be because of those involved, but just the same cooperation and consideration among large groups of people should never be taken for granted, so thanks to all that did their part today at PaG.

If you missed the wind today out there... well ... wouldn't wanna be ya'!!