Which size waroo?
 

Hey waroo riders/ex-riders... I'm thinking about buying a waroo (because of price) to fill the average conditions around here. I am thinking either a 12m or a 14m. I am *guessing* the top end of the 14m is close to 30mph, so that really sounds like the kite for me.

I want something to cover the range of my 21m, 18m, 15m, and possibly 13m. As far as I can tell the 14m waroo might do that, but then again so might the 12m?

Think so?

youre more than welcome to try mine, if we ever get wind...

Quit yer whining good buddy, the wind is but a month away...

and ill be ready with my 9m 14m waroo, 20" TD bar , and my custom 132x41 waterboard being made as i type, also a new 2006 LF waist harness with handle pass loop, and my custom surf board with straps for the east coast, oh yeah, im ready for this year...

i can hold my 12 switchblade down in 30, but it's sketchy. 20-25 is fun, and i can start riding on a 133 custom and my 12 in about 12 knots

10 on a big board, but no fun.
I weigh about 140

the 12 would be good for you in like 14-35, the 14 in prolly 12 or less up to maybe 30

Danny have you seen any of those waterboards up close? Curious to see how it comes out.

Tom.. you will get great low / med end on a 12 or 14.. my 12 replaces my 11 - 15 C kites and goes even further.. i can usually ride it fine when others are out on 16s.. a 14 will extend that more of course.. i suspect that a 14 will cover all those sizes you are looking to replace..

but..
i dont think you can count on either the 12 or the 14 to cover you in the upper range of 30.

risk of inverting skyrockets at those points..

i had to ride my 12m nearly completely depowered in 25 and it was SKETCHY.. i threw up my 9m and it was perfect.

anytime im out on my 12m, just ask to take it for a spin.. always best to try before you buy!!! you can demo my gear anytime you want.

actually, i remember two different times that you were on your 12m and i was riding my 21m

yep.. with a big fat flat board i can ride in very light winds.. and im no where close to a small guy.

i am going to get a 16m very soon tho to get even more power for those days.. but i KNOW that my 12m will be my go-to-kite for this upcoming season. last year i bounced between an 11 a 13 and a 15 C kite.. my 12 covers that and then some!

i just dont have much water time with a waroo in its upper range. most problem / concern / incident you read about online where people are inverting or whatever on their bow kites is when they push that upper range .. could also be that some people take BEST's ranges as the gospel and take their kites out in conditions that require a smaller rig.

Yikes, I inverting near shore in 25mph sounds like a near death experience. I inverted EBone's 9m in 25 and it was not a fun experience, but amazingly the kite relaunched itself after smashing my groin about 4 times from various directions. Still undecided but it sounds like the 12m might be the best choice. Really if it's less than 15mph I'm not having much fun anyway regardless of which kite I'm on, so loosing top end for 2mph additional low end is not such a great tradeoff for the 14.

Inverting bows is a result of rider error , even in the highest of winds.

Typically they will invert if you push the bar out tooo far, inexperienced riders tend to do this in high winds.

The trick to not inverting , even in high winds is to only push the bar out as much as you really need to and not a bit more. in other words, keep plenty of tension on those lines!

you have to use the board edge to control the power, not the kites depower, most beginners arent good at using the board to control the kite's power, thats why they end up inverting

Huh? How is pushing the bar out to depower the kite (causing it to invert) a product of inexperience? You are saying one should ride a certain way (avoid depowering??) to avoid the fatal flaw of these kites?

Sounds to me like a tuning/design problem. If a bow kite will invert when/if I get into trouble and push the bar out fast then I will not be riding one of those kites until it's fixed. That sounds incredibly dangerous, like an accident waiting to happen.

When I inverted E's waroo it was definately my fault... I did a jumping transition and the kite flew far over to the edge of the window and flipped inside out. A C kite would have either stalled for a second or crashed but the waroo inverted a few times instead and punshed me severely for my little experiment. No big deal, but if you are saying I shouldnt even depower it all the way then something is obviously wrong with the tuning, bridle design or kite design.

Seriously thats like saying "Dont take your foot off the gas pedal or the car will go full throttle with the steering reversed".

What happens if you fall on a wave and accidentally let go of the bar??? The kite inverts and lofts you into the rocks?!

Sounds like there needs to be a stopper to prevent 100% depower, but even then any slack in the lines after a fall could cause inversion also.

I really want one of these kites, but maybe I'll wait to see how many get whacked during inversions this season.

I think it depowers to quickly. To much wind hitting on top of the LE causing it to invert. Just my opinion that is now subjected to be trashed. :)

Also the LE is much smaller on the Warro then other BOW kites, it's not as rigid and could also be the reason it inverts.

YES, it is. it is in the way and the amount that the bar is pushed out that causes it to invert. i.e. , flying fast depowered across the powerzone is almost 100% guarranty invert

YES, only depower to what is necessary to avoid getting lofted, but still keep a good amount of power on.


Not a fatal flaw, laws of physice and rider error. All kites will invert if put under the same equivalent stress, i.e. inverse airflow pattern


I doubt it, the kite will most likely be overhead when in the waves and not in the powerzone so most likely a bow will depower and slowly fall out of the sky in this scenario unless the bar is grabbed quickly

I dissagree with that.

my switchblades have NEVER not once inverted in mid flight
and i've flown my 12 fully depowerd (past the override ball) in a squall... no problem at all.. but came in after a tack

Josh , you were prolly powered a little during that squall I bet , huh?
BTW, past the overide ball is not quite fully depowered, against the top end of the rope is


I did not say that riding the bow depowered would invert it ; I SAID pushing the bar out ( quickly ) and then flying it fast across the power zone is what inverts it ( allows airflow on top of the kite ).

SO, riding overpowered and depowered if okaydokay honkaydoray, but just keep the kite relatively overhead and not moving in the middle of the powerzone too depowered

THIS IS DIFFERENT from riding it in the powerzone POWERED or OVERPOWERED, this will not cause inversions

I've kited with my 12m in 30+ kts and my 9m in 40+ with no inversion problems at all because I don't let it depower fully

yeah tru, theres no need to push it all the way to the top.. i've never had to.

i personally think the waroo is most prone to inverting.


also, yeah that squall was FUN :lol:
never jumped so high in my life.. i sent the kite and sheeted in all the way and SOARED, i sheeted out because i was up so high and so long, i didn't think i was comming down! :shock:

interesting statement... have you ridden every brand of bow???
or is that just some Best bashing going on :shock:
i believe any flat kite, depowered enough, is flying on its front lines and has the possibility of inverting in its upper wind range, but im no physics major :roll:

yep, but the point is that there is no need to sheet ALL the way out when just so a little sheeting out will do ya' as far as gettin' ya depowered enough so you aren't in danger of gettin' lofted.

Most newbies think they have to depower 110%,;, overkill which will invert your kite if you fly it wrong

no, but i have flown the waroo.. just watch it when it flys it flutters ALOT, alot more then any other bow kite i've seen.. not bashing best, just stateing my opinion.. i personally think thoes are most prone to inverting

nothing aginst best.

I dont get what all the hand-wringing is about. I bought a waroo 12 while I was in Hatteras last weekend, rode it for the first time in nuking wind and over head high surf and had a blast and not one problem-even when I got pounded in a breaker! I am still working on jump timing though. I kind of miss the rush from the rocket blast launch when sending a c kite in high winds. The bow is much more gradual.

like raul said all bow kites invert, up in hatteras bows are all over the place and personally the only kite I saw invert was a Crossbow. It was zipping across the wind in 30 and all of a sudden it was inverted. All bows are prone to inverting hell ebones 9 waroo inverted on tom, the only kite i have seen invert more than once was the Answer.

We'll figure it out with time. (this inversion gig) I haven't had this happen yet, but I think being overpowered and pushing the envelope on the higher end of a kite might make it more prone. I don't know. Only personal experience is going to solve this riddle for me.

I do remember a phenomenon polesurfing where we could get backwinded if on too big a sail in higher winds. That sucked and all makes of sails were prone to it.
Basically, we shot so high upwind and other things going on, that more wind got on the "top" of the sail than "underneath" and BAM... we would get whacked and pushed down into the water. The more cambered the sail was the more prone it was. Most kites are really cambered compared to the sails we used. I don't know if it's the same phenomenom or not, but the thought kinda freaks me out a little.

I know that I won't be putting up a 12m anything in 30 and pressing my luck to see if it's the same deal on a kite. I will probably be on a 7m Ion.
Isn't 30 still alot of wind?

Hey, I have an idea. Everyone buy one bow/sle/hybrid (whatever) of a different brand of 12m size and on our first cold front, let's all sheet in and sheet out like mad in the 35 knot gusts while trying transitions.
First one to invert and get whacked wins :shock:

I have been flying my Sonics in about every condition that I could for a year. I have pulled it across the window with it sheeted out fully and so far nothing has happened (knock on wood). Now the Sonic looks exactly like the Waroo (same kite?) except for the bridal. In the Sonic you put a knot on the bridal (where the pulley runs) so that the kite cannot depower past a critical point. I think at least.
Anyway, my question is what happens in an inversion and what should one do in the situation???

depends on how you ride, i ride with my leash connected to the CL, if you ride like that then ditch the kite if on shore. if far from shore, it will cash into the water. if you ride with your leash connected to a line, then hit the QR, and problems solved, but is a bitch to untangle lines.

Basically when it inverts it flips inside out and the kite is powered again but going the opposite direction with controls reversed.

When I rode the waroo, I was having a good time jumping and going from 0 to mach 3 in .1 seconds and then did a few jumping transitions. They were sooo much easier on that kite that I decided to do a real big one. So I jumped, threw the kite across the window when it happened.

The kite flipped inside out and back to normal about 4 times really fast. Each time it "popped" it yanked me about 10 feet down wind. After being dragged about 30 feet into the crab trap area and towards the road, it inverted again and the lines tangled... the kite started looping. At this point I was shitting my pants because the highway was directly down wind and the leash was connected TO THE CHICKEN LOOP (Like Josh's?).

Obviously just pulling the chicken loop release wouldn't do anything except leave the kite powered and looping with the bar out of my reach (because of where the leash was connected).

So, my two remaining options were to ditch the kite and leash completely and watch it go into the road, or hang on and hope something less bad happened soon.

Since it was not my kite I elected to hang on and hope for the best. Luckily after about 4 - 5 loops one of the tips hit the water and the kite crashed. It relaunched pretty easily and I spun the bar a few times and all was good. I immediately rode back to the beach and returned the kite.

So that was my first experience with the wAAAAAAh-whew! in a nutshell.

I had a feeling it was going to invert on me because on the beach when I pushed the bar out the kite would start fluttering really bad and act like it was ready to invert any second. I asked why it did that and the answer was "I dont know, but dont push the bar out!". :roll: :roll:

I love these kites, waroo included, but if pushing the bar out can cause it to invert while standing on the beach then something is definately wrong. It should fly on two lines with threat of inversion.

Of course, when it DID actually invert, it was my own fault. I was basically pushing it to see how it behaved when pushed too far. I just got a little more than I expected.

-tom

I don't know. This seems like a good argument that bows aren't for beginners, is it not? Or is inversion rare?

I have never had anything like that happen on a C. This season is going to be interesting with all the Waroo and other Bow/Sle owners around, that's for sure. I don't want anyone to get hurt, that's for sure, but man I am curious to see this for myself.

Inversions are rare, IMO bows are great kites for beginers and experts alike,

You can take a bow kite out in humongous amounts of wind and they won't invert,

just don't push that bar out more than is needed especially if flying it fast across the window ,

You won't have any problems, I've ridden my bows 1 year now and never had an inversion issue
:lol:
:mrgreen:
:D
It's all good 8)

I've had more trouble with my body inverting that with my kite inverting.

The best was when I broke a pulley bar at East Beach right at the start of a jump and headplanted into the mud. I had mud in my ears, for f*ck's sake! I dragged back into shore with Crazy Jay laughing at me.

Rider inversions. Definitely more common than kite inversions.

That's good to know. Ihaven't had it happen to me, but I haven't been on one in 30 plus yet.

ive had my C-kite invert once, wasnt very fun, good thing i had a fifth line

maybe kite companys should start putting a "oh shit" handle on bows, like what slingshot has on the fuels, that would make the inversions safer.

Nah, inversion will become a new trick element. Like, "dude, that front to inversion to blind was sick!"

How does a C kite invert? I've never seen that.

Apparently it is blowing 12 to 17 at PaG out of the south.
(somehow I have an FX account) anyone believe that one?

you over jump the kite, it tips forwards over your head then slowly falls downwind of you, LE down but the top of the kite is facing you, then your lines get tight and it bends backwards (inside out), im lucky the LE fabric didnt shred :shock:

Yeah had it happen a few times on a C Kite, but only after/during it's crash. It doesn't happen under power like a flat kite... a flat kite will invert in midair!

But I agree, it's probably something which can be avoided for the most part.

best has oh shit on both sides of the waroo bar

I read somewhere that when you use the OSH on the waroo, the kite will start spinning in the air... not much power...but as the lines twist, the tips get pulled in and the kite starts to generate power again, while spinning and completely out of control.

No idea if that's true, I read it on kiteforum.

TS wrote

I think That would create a pretty asymetrical situation, prolly why the other kite manufacturers don't put OSH on the back lines of bows

Some of them actually put the OSH , or what they use for a leash , on the
front line(s) which makes sense since that will ( should ) flag the kite better from the leading edge