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#1
08-21-2007, 11:35 PM
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The people that are going to cause problems at the beach past having a few people just talk to them, are always going to cause problems.
If having someone talk to that person and tell them they really shouldn't be riding and it's a danger and they blow them off, how is a colored piece of cloth, or a sign going to help? The furthest that we should have to go is to have someone or a few people tell the person they're a danger and they need more lessons. Having signs out there wouldn't solve anything. Because if there are signs there stating rules, and somebody breaks the rules and gets hurt, wouldn't it open up liability for the land owner? You know, since there's nobody there enforcing the rules, it's that persons fault. For instance, take east beach for example. We place a sign. New guy comes out doesn't see it. Gets somebody to launch the kite, or launches it himself. Someone stops the person, tells him about the sign, and he goes and reads it. New guy decides he's above the rules on the sign (which we all would be anyways since it's just a random sign we concocted and placed without actually having any legal rules). New guy launches anyways and gets hurt. He could claim the rules were there, but he didn't see them or there was nobody there to tell him they were there. New guy decides to press charges against the park. Park is pissed, bans kiting. The only way I'd support a sign or any of the other stuff is if it was official. Which I wouldn't want either because if the rules are being enforced, people would be caught breaking them all the time and sooner or later the spot would be banned. We want to police ourselves without being noticed. A sign is a bad idea. The wristband idea isn't bad, but I don't see it as really working. There are far too many kiters to get them out to everyone whom rides. I'm not even worried about the beginners so much as the guys whom are jumping WAY too close to shore and jumping in other people's way constantly. This is an issue that REALLY needs to be addressed. If a new ignorant guy whom has never taken lessons gets hurt, it can be seen as just the guy who grabbed a huge kite and tried to do something stupid. Now, if a more advanced rider goes out and gets hurt/hurts others then we will be more viewed as a whole. Take for instance Josh (I'm not picking on Josh, I actually never see him jump really close to shore hence why I'm using him). Let's say Josh is riding off of Redington Beach, jumping close to shore, throwing mobes, showing off for the ladies, and just having a great time. Then on a jump really close to shore something breaks, or something goes wrong and he smashes into a girl, a really hot one even. How will it make us look that one of our Best riders caused such an accident? People will pull for a ban on kiting because if such a competent rider can still cause such an accident then nobody will want ANY riders near them. Just my $.02 
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#2
08-22-2007, 01:29 AM
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what say we get together Sept 1 (saturday) or Sept 2 (sunday) for a couple hours to have a drink, get some food and discuss the options.
i KNOW that a system in place will never be perfect.. but if we have to try something now before this season. We can never tell someone they cannot ride at SW.. but if we can identify those new riders before they are on the water we will be one step ahead of where we are right now. If a large portion of the local kiters agrees to something like this I will bet you cash money that a huge percentage of the new riders will see the benefits as well. signs at the launches might not be feasible .. EB signs might not work as they may make Ft. Desoto liable. not sure on that.. Another major thing to think about... if we have a local organization in place and make it as public as possible it might go a long ways to show that the majority of the group is serious about safety and responsibility. This might come into play if an accident does occur... We all should take Steve up on his cert offers. I know he mentioned he could do it for cheap for all interested. Steve if you want to get a date/time in place I bet a number of folks would show up to get certified.
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#3
08-22-2007, 09:17 AM
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I will be in michigan for labor day weekend, but i do have a suggestion to throw out there that is a bit strange to some of you but that has worked in other water activities that i have organized.As soon as i can get a break here today i'll explain it in detail...
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#4
08-22-2007, 09:23 AM
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I'm not really sure where this thread is heading... but i am all for people getting their self recovery cert because recovering boards for people who can't body drag, and recovering kites for people who can't self rescue is getting old. Yeah I always do it, but these are things they should have learned and practiced in their lessons...
However, while that is a start it doesn't take care of the current problem. Who are going to be the kite cops at the skyway (or anywhere else), and how many of us are going to back them up when they try to convince someone they should not ride at that particular time for whatever reason? This has to be agreed... if X comes to you and asks for help confronting someone you drop what you are doing and round up a few more people to make it clear it's a group feeling, not just one safety nazi trying to be a dick. BTW, I did this not long ago with Scott and Bob at PAG and we were pretty much blown off and ignored. I posted our experience here, then it got real ugly, got roasted, but there was finally some positive change... then I heard it was back to square 1 a few weeks later. Hopefully that's not true, we don't ride there anymore. So, while I am all for doing something, I am not convinced anyone will take it seriously, especially some of the local instructors who are doing their own thing. I would get a dialog going between instructors before proceeding any further. After all, they are the ones who pushed out all of these new riders at $75-$100/hr so they should be the ones taking the first steps regarding their safety. And who else are these riders going to listen to and respect, but their instructor? So get all of the instructors to agree on something and I'm sure we'll all go along with it.
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#5
08-22-2007, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
-Matt Sexton TritonKiteboarding.com
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#6
08-22-2007, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
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#7
08-22-2007, 11:25 AM
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I’m all for getting a cert card, no problem, but that doesn’t help spot trouble before it happens without adding some sort of visual indicator. I was thinking of colored wrist bands. one color indicates you are a proficient rider or better. Another color means you are proficient and also willing to help out and monitor. A third color would indicate I’m still learning and I’m open to suggestions. No wrist band gets you some questions and an invitation to qualify for an arm band. Either the monitors or the instructors could hand out bands. I also think some signage would be helpful too.
Bob
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#8
08-22-2007, 12:01 PM
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there are problems with the wrist bands that i'm not sure how to address. First of all, what happens when i progress from a red to a yellow? Who decides? What if people forget their bracelet or from out of town. How do we know that one of the kite-police will be at all major launches all season?
If we had boards at major launches, we can keep track of how many people are there, and when they write their name on the tag, they can put "blue waroo" or whatever. So if someone arrives later, they can check in, check the board to see who is on the water and what level they are at. If someone is wearing a red bracelet, chances are that i will not be able to see what color it is until he is too close!  The buddy board would not have to be "manned" all the time. That way if there's 5 riders at a launch, they can check the board when taking a break or arriving and see who they are riding with. Rules and regs can be posted on the side of the boards. Just some ideas. Staffing is a large problem for a lot of this and the boards are pretty much self sufficient. (we will need people at the beginning enforcing "checking in" but that would have to happen with bracelets as well.
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#9
08-22-2007, 12:28 PM
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Lots of good ideas. I'd wear a wrist band or a colored kite leash or whatever and something definitely needs to happen. I'm in for a beer and a chat but not on Sat the 1st. Signs would be great and are worth discussing but I think Skyway Scottie is right; who do you ask for permission and what if they react by just shutting us down. It almost seems to me like we need to have some sort of organization or local club ( I don't know how to get around liability with this, but...) and when I walk up to someone with my cool club sticker or patch and tell you to get off the water and go to EB I speak with the support of every other member. To be a member you would have to pass an instructors' skills or certification test and earn your way in. Triton Matt, I think your energy is awesome and I think with the support you have with Eckerd and the support Eckerd has in the community that you could maybe pull strings to make some of your suggestions happen. We could even use some similar type of format from your club to starting an independent organization. I don't know but it's worth looking into. (PS. the air compressor idea rocks)
Skyway is without question an intermediate to advanced riding spot and if we want to keep it we need to grow some chest hair and keep newbies outta there. When I was learning I probably went to skyway 5 times to watch the sessions but I knew I had no business riding there. It is also important for us to stress to newbies that not every windy day is a good day for them to learn. Riding one windy day in the middle of summer is not the way anyone is gonna learn. It took me 2-3 months to ride upwind consistently. I saw that guy at skyway and almost said something the moment I arrived. I thought though that I saw him ride upwind a couple of tacks so I sloughed it off. Now I wish I would have because his monkey kite was a 12 m and he had it up b4 the wind came, which raised my flags since i saw 16 m's on the beach waiting for the blow to happen. But I only knew 3 people of about 25 out there and I ride that spot maybe 10 times or so a year, so I don't know if Joe Blow is a regular or not. But if we had an organization or some way to identify ourselves as non newbies then I think as a community we would recognize unqualified individuals b4 they even launch and avoid more accidents. If we avoid 1 accident then it's worth it.
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#10
08-22-2007, 10:28 AM
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okay. this is a VERY VERY rough sketch of this plan. We've been using it in the YMCA for many many years for keeping track of who's who and what level they are at.
Its basically a large pegboard with hooks in each of the holes. there will be a container of "cards" (not sure the details on this one yet) that you could write your name on in wet-erase marker or grease pencil. Here's a basic idea of the layout... It won't let me send it big, so if you want to see it in better detail, PM me and i can email it to you... There should also be an asterix on there that states something about always looking out for yourself and also your bro's...whether you/they are a great rider or not.
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