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Old 12-18-2008, 05:58 PM
Clew In Clew In is offline
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Hey Rick,

Sorry to hear about your trouble I hope you are doing better and heal fast.

I self land lots of times and setting the kite free is not an option. I have to use the leash to keep the people on the beach safe. I have always felt comfortable with attaching the leash to one of the front lines(Crossbow 2006). I have pulled the plug several times and it has always flipped on its back and dropped out of the air. On the other hand I have another kite 17m Bow and it does not have front line attachment only OS handles on the steering lines. This set up always scares me. When I have pulled the plug the kite rolls and rolls until it is directly down wind(I always wonder if a line tangles would it take off). When it is light wind it is not much trouble; however, if the wind picks up and I am overpowered with a 17m it makes you think about what you are going to do if the kite does not come down and land correctly.
Also, the 17m kite has an attachment ring below the chicken loop and it is supposed to depower the kite if you pull the QR. I have released the kite in light wind and it seemed to have lots of pull and I would not want to release on that in a bad situation.
I like the idea of IDS and I like the front line attachment point for landing. Have you heard of any mishaps with the leash attached to the front line?

Clew In
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  #22  
Old 12-19-2008, 03:25 AM
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RickI RickI is offline
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Thanks, parts are healing fast!

I think a big part of the problem in my case and risk in general involves using the "spin the kite" solo landing technique on bridled kites. There is a tendency, not a 100% certainty either, of tangling line on a wingtip or elsewhere potentially disabling depowering. If this happens you may well go over land at speed with no effective means of dealing with it without releasing the kite. You may have a poor chance of releasing the kite leash too. If there are people at risk downwind, a viable solution might be to simply NOT use this landing technique with flat kites. If there are no people at risk detaching your leash before landing should reduce that source of hazard to the rider.

As simple a question as where to attach your kite leash is, to a reride ring on a leading edge or trailing (O'shit) line, it is complicated. I tried to get manufacturers to commit to recommendations on this sometime back on the forums. Some responded, most did not. I don't believe the same attachment point will work equally well for all kites. I recall problems in using either leash attachment point in the first couple of years of flat kites. Today, I don't know if this has changed or not or model specific characteristics with each leash location.

A big part of the problem is inconsistent outcomes. Doing solo landing (or launching) one way or the other, won't necessarily ding you every time. It will happen only part of the time, which part? I've been doing spin the kite solo landings for a long time with flat kites and have had wing tip problems only a few times that I recall. This last one was a bad one. Solution? The most consistent one that comes to mind is to not use this landing approach with flat kites. This leaves using a hold fast, also with some problems particularly in strong winds with some kites, bystander interactions, etc. or assisted landings.


anyway ...

Some things that led to the painful, still, outcome weren't as obvious as they might seem. One thing was more obvious than others though, which appears first below:


1. Be practiced and prepared to use the IDS for solo and emergency landings.



2. IDS equipped kites drift BACKWARDS or downwind when held by the front lines or trim strap alone. I have never encountered this in another kite before, four line LEI or flat kite. All other kites have stayed at the side of the wind window. Don't do this with IDS kites, simple.


3. If the IDS equipped kite drifts far enough downwind with the IDS NOT being activated because it is supported by the front lines alone, you may have problems. I did and not far downwind at all. It will not apparently respond to being steered forward by back lines in this situation, again unlike other kites I have done this with.


As said already, I was NOT using Jon Modica's complete technique for landing. I have never had much luck with it as my past kites bounced too much. Bouncing problems are mentioned a lot in posts about this technique along with lots of cautions. I have had good luck, until now bringing the kite down and holding it at the side of the wind window by holding the trim strap (about 50 times). Again, Do NOT do this with IDS kites or for all I care with any other kite either. I am not certain they will reverse launch either off the water by pulling in on the trim strap. Anyone had luck with this on IDS kites?
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Last edited by RickI; 01-14-2009 at 01:06 PM.
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