The Skyway, aka the Highway to Hell

Steve, I did originally have a more severe post, I deleted it. Why? I don't like making negative posts in general, especially if I feel they are in total vain. Some people love to slant a negative post into a desire to watch Days of Our Lives and then make accusations safely from behind their keyboard. I felt the original post was spot on, but also made in vain.

Keeping it positive is becoming more difficult for me the last few days.
It seemed we were going somewhere with a couple safety meetings and the sign idea. This is a very off the wall example, but did you know if a man is cheated on, he is 70% likely to forgive if he just hears about it, and only 5% likely if he actually sees it with his own eyes? So, if you are reading this and thinking "dude chill.. or stay positive dude" or similar, I think I can relate. But try saying it after you realize how many kites have gone in the road in the last 3 weeks compounded with seeing Circus McGircus live on two occasions.

I hear a rush to get the sign at the SW. Well, we laid out a series of stuff, got clearance at EB... now what? Did someone run with it? That'd be great if so.
A sign can't hurt, I imagine.
But, is the sign a magic sign? In other words, does it possess Jeidi powers that we as a group lack when we talk to people and try to stop them from doing stuff like jumping/riding very close to shore?
This rush to get the sign and tags mentality, when the problem is here now is like rushing to put up "don't smoke at the gas pump" signs when the station is on fire. Once the sign is up, if most people "continue to smoke" sticking with the analogy, then what? Point to it, forcefully! (?)
Most of the monkey business I have seen recently isn't from newbies, it's from veterans who already know the hazards of their riding behaviors. I am not against a sign, but I think we are focusing on newbies, tags, cones, etc... all while turning a blind eye (I am too) to the more urgent safety issues at the SW.

Bob, Tom and I confronted (talked to nicely) some riders at PAG a while back. I don't want to belabor that scenario, my reason for raising it is that we did something. We took action.
With or without a sign, it's going to come down to the same thing for behaviors to change (if possible) at the SW.

The thing is, these are our long time friends out there that we have to confront. Not dragons we can kill with swords, not occasional out of town kooks we tell to leave or have their ass kicked or even the over- demonized beginner. Nope, it's some of our vet riders and a couple are even instructors. That makes it tricky.
Confrontation is always easier (at least for me) when I feel it is with - "them... the bad guy.. similar". This is with friends.
We all know that they know that we know.... and we know the outcome of the "hey man, can you please" conversation before we even have the conversation. No veteran rider out there is in the dark over our concerns or unaware that we wish they would stay clear of shore, etc.
Is there something we can do or say to them? I have already tried talking to most of them on numerous occasions over the years. I obviously am saying the wrong thing.
Maybe someone else is better at phrasing things.

That's why I didn't even try to initiate more conversations the last few days.

Steve made a good point about the SILENT majority. It is very disheartening to me to think about it. We have so many guys that want to be safe and do the right thing. But how many posts do we have on here about "Wow... how can I help?". How many people? Five, eight, maybe. And I know this, at least 50 read the forum and are members. It's not for lack of knowing about the forum, its a true lack of participation that we have a silent majority. More importantly, the number is even smaller "in real life" when at the SW.


Some of us have tried in various ways in the past, some for a long time, to contribute to safety and related agendas. In my mind, that is so much more than so many who have never tried at all. If I or someone else decides to delete a post or not get involved in something, keep that in mind, please. It doesn't do much good to kick someone in the shins that has stepped up in the past. It doesn't encourage others to help in the future. I actually strongly believe that this is the primary reason people don't speak out on this forum is ALL the heat they have seen others catch for showing concern or expressing ideas in the past. It's a lot easier just stay "out of the madness" and not get involved.

I hope things change for the positive in the future, because frankly, they have to if we don't want to lose the SW. Let's just not put too much faith in inanimate objects is one of my points. The other is that we are talking about our core as well as new riders, in my opinion, and the sooner we acknowledge that, the better. I still have zero idea how you change the core's attitude though, and that's why we need a new voice(S) in that department.

Originally Posted by Skyway Scott

Steve, I did originally have a more severe post, I deleted it. Why? I don't like making negative posts in general, especially if I feel they are in total vain. Some people love to slant a negative post into a desire to watch Days of Our Lives and then make accusations safely from behind their keyboard. I felt the original post was spot on, but also made in vain.

Keeping it positive is becoming more difficult for me the last few days.
It seemed we were going somewhere with a couple safety meetings and the sign idea. This is a very off the wall example, but did you know if a man is cheated on, he is 70% likely to forgive if he just hears about it, and only 5% likely if he actually sees it with his own eyes? So, if you are reading this and thinking "dude chill.. or stay positive dude" or similar, I think I can relate. But try saying it after you realize how many kites have gone in the road in the last 3 weeks compounded with seeing Circus McGircus live on two occasions.

I hear a rush to get the sign at the SW. Well, we laid out a series of stuff, got clearance at EB... now what? Did someone run with it? That'd be great if so.
A sign can't hurt, I imagine.
But, is the sign a magic sign? In other words, does it possess Jeidi powers that we as a group lack when we talk to people and try to stop them from doing stuff like jumping/riding very close to shore?
This rush to get the sign and tags mentality, when the problem is here now is like rushing to put up "don't smoke at the gas pump" signs when the station is on fire. Once the sign is up, if most people "continue to smoke" sticking with the analogy, then what? Point to it, forcefully! (?)
Most of the monkey business I have seen recently isn't from newbies, it's from veterans who already know the hazards of their riding behaviors. I am not against a sign, but I think we are focusing on newbies, tags, cones, etc... all while turning a blind eye (I am too) to the more urgent safety issues at the SW.

Bob, Tom and I confronted (talked to nicely) some riders at PAG a while back. I don't want to belabor that scenario, my reason for raising it is that we did something. We took action.
With or without a sign, it's going to come down to the same thing for behaviors to change (if possible) at the SW.

The thing is, these are our long time friends out there that we have to confront. Not dragons we can kill with swords, not occasional out of town kooks we tell to leave or have their ass kicked or even the over- demonized beginner. Nope, it's some of our vet riders and a couple are even instructors. That makes it tricky.
Confrontation is always easier (at least for me) when I feel it is with - "them... the bad guy.. similar". This is with friends.
We all know that they know that we know.... and we know the outcome of the "hey man, can you please" conversation before we even have the conversation. No veteran rider out there is in the dark over our concerns or unaware that we wish they would stay clear of shore, etc.
Is there something we can do or say to them? I have already tried talking to most of them on numerous occasions over the years. I obviously am saying the wrong thing.
Maybe someone else is better at phrasing things.

That's why I didn't even try to initiate more conversations the last few days.

Steve made a good point about the SILENT majority. It is very disheartening to me to think about it. We have so many guys that want to be safe and do the right thing. But how many posts do we have on here about "Wow... how can I help?". How many people? Five, eight, maybe. And I know this, at least 50 read the forum and are members. It's not for lack of knowing about the forum, its a true lack of participation that we have a silent majority. More importantly, the number is even smaller "in real life" when at the SW.


Some of us have tried in various ways in the past, some for a long time, to contribute to safety and related agendas. In my mind, that is so much more than so many who have never tried at all. If I or someone else decides to delete a post or not get involved in something, keep that in mind, please. It doesn't do much good to kick someone in the shins that has stepped up in the past. It doesn't encourage others to help in the future. I actually strongly believe that this is the primary reason people don't speak out on this forum is ALL the heat they have seen others catch for showing concern or expressing ideas in the past. It's a lot easier just stay "out of the madness" and not get involved.

I hope things change for the positive in the future, because frankly, they have to if we don't want to lose the SW. Let's just not put too much faith in inanimate objects is one of my points. The other is that we are talking about our core as well as new riders, in my opinion, and the sooner we acknowledge that, the better. I still have zero idea how you change the core's attitude though, and that's why we need a new voice(S) in that department.

I'm gonna make you keep it

[Wolfie]

I think all we can do is keep a constant and gentle pressure in the direction of cleaning up some of the riding at SW. We should all try to discuss dangerous riding with anybody when we see it. If the person is unwilling to change their practices, so be it. The worst that can happen is the same as if we do nothing. I really don't think being reminded that something is dangerous and may get us banned should be taken confrontational. The truth being told, I don't think there is one of us out there that has not showboated near shore. It is instinctual....but with a slow, constant push anything is possible. I'm looking into sign prices today.

[Wolfie]

FYI-
Sign Prices for an outside 18"x24" (like the real estate open house signs). This maybe bigger than we need.

Just text- $40.95

With a map/graffics $66.00

With a Y-Frame to hold up add $17.50

RickI offered $100 and that covers two signs.

[Wolfie]

Who has the last copy of what we came up with. I will e-mail it to a few sign companies and see what would be best $-wise. I will also help with the idea to sink a few bouys to mark off the no jump/trick area at SW. How far out should they be?

[Steve-O]

Scott, very good perspective on the current situation.

Some thoughts.

1. We need to continue this effort and not give up until we succeed with these ideas that we all seem to agree on.

2. Wolfie's idea with the bouy's is something I was discussing last week with Craig Whiteleather, a very safe rider. I don't see why we couldn't permanently put some bouys at both Skyway and East beach to allow for a safe buffer zone for outgoing riders and to remind folks to stay clear of the beach. Are there laws against having them in place on a permanent basis? Anyone?

3. It sounds like the signs are close to some completion. Let's get it done. Count WSW in for $100 towards signs.

4. As far as tagging goes, Triton and Watersports West have the most amount of instructors in the bay area. If we could put our resources together and agree on a tagging system hopefully other instructors/schools in the bay area will follow our lead. I will spearhead this with Matt.

Signs could be in place in less than a month as well as marker bouys.

Tagging could take a bit more time and have the most issues to deal with, but if we don't try, we will never know.

Let me know what you all think

[RKITEKT]

Originally Posted by kite-4-life

Scott, I agree on your posts completely.
the original (missing)posts werent negative at all, they were facts. I was a little shocked to read something, grab a cup of coffee, and have it gone when I get back, thats all!
My solution to getting the tricksters off the beach?
Build a slider, put it on the sandbar.

One of the photographers who has been taking photos of us recently offered to build a slider... just let him know what to make and he will make it. That is what he said...

I think its a good idea... build a slider way out there! And put "no jump - zone bouys" up. Can't we hit up some of the local marine shops and kite shops to donate for the cause?

Originally Posted by kite-4-life

My solution to getting the tricksters off the beach?
Build a slider, put it on the sandbar.

This really is a funny idea and it would probably work. At least it'll keep the injuries on the sand bar.

Was it Mike who knocked out his front teeth on the slider earlier this year?

Ouch!

[RKITEKT]

we can control where the parking occurs as well (push it back and create barriers). Randomly parked cars are a huge hazard. Is is crazy to think about placing nets between parking and beach where kiters are setting up? You know, Like the ones they put around baseball parks, just not so high? Something to catch a kiter out of control. Obviously these things take work and money... I am just throwing out crazy ideas...