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  #11  
Old 08-21-2007, 07:30 PM
<jason
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Default relax on that get off the beach stuff

Hey oldskool..thats a bad idea. If im doing something wrong show me the right way to do it like someone showed you. You come over and tell me to get off the beach your probably gonna get your ass kicked. This is the wrong way to go about this. Most of us are adults and will welcome constructive critisizim(?) But telling someone to get outa here......not so good.
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  #12  
Old 08-21-2007, 07:49 PM
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TampaBay Noob TampaBay Noob is offline
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you could just laminate some green paper and put some symbol or signature on from whoever hands the cards out. Then just put a metal clip on it and walla. Should be cost effective and the signature could verify authenticity.
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  #13  
Old 08-21-2007, 07:55 PM
TritonKiteboarding TritonKiteboarding is offline
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id be happy to help eat the costs with the school funding we got for the club this year, including but not limited to signs at beach, Locals Bands/ Distribution, built in air compressors @ EB and Skyway, Safety Clinics for local officials, St. Pete Beach Police, ECSAR, St Pete Police, Local Coast Guard, Desoto park Rangers, ect...

If anyone has local contacts with people to coordinate these things it would be appreciated, I already have the ECSAR, and police contacts covered.
-TritonKiteboarding.com
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  #14  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:41 PM
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Wolfie Wolfie is offline
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Thumbs up

I think the labeling system is a kick ass idea and will help however I can! I too would be happy to provide my limit knowledge to anyone and help out anyone who looks to be in trouble. I will sign up to be a "mentor" if we are going to get this thing going.
As for fixed signs at Skyway...who would you even ask? And is it worth asking the DOT to have one there? I'm not sure I would temp fate on that one quite yet. East beach might be easier, since the rangers there seem to be comfortable with us and we are more "legitimate" there.
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  #15  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:41 PM
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DanB DanB is offline
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Default Great Idea Lets move forward

I support Bryan 100% percent - It is getting worse every year.

My suggestion is we draft a simple charter 1 page - we can borrow from many I have seen on-line and get the colors down and what type of band thing.

We don't have to wait and get everyone on board if enough of us start it then we can use the upcoming season to promote it.

I also would think some bumper stickers would work well to promote and identify anyone who is part of the organization.
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  #16  
Old 08-21-2007, 09:34 PM
Skyway Scott
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Eckerd College Search and Rescue seems like a winner for sure. They don't have any real authoritative power to tell us what to do, but at the same time could offer great assistance in a time of need.

Several people, especially E-bone, have brought up some valid points about self-regulation and the exclusion of outside authority, hence the term self regulation. E-bone's view, if I remember correctly, was that by inviting the authorities (people with the power to pass regulations) to the table, we are potentially inviting regulation on our kiting activities that might vary from what we actually would like (a ban for instance). His points seem valid and we might want to consider in greater detail having discussions with the police. I don't know. I obviously have talked to some authority figures in the past, and as I recall, caught hell for it.

It might be a good idea if we successfully figure out how to police ourselves and prove how responsible we are to ourselves before we try to include outside authorities. Just a thought. I don't know the right answer.

I kind of like the band idea, but am a little unsure on it's final goal. The "problem" at hand, that several of us have agreed to it seems, is that riders that can't consistently ride upwind probably shouldn't be at the SW and they pose a threat to themselves and our access. Is that the consensus?

If so, how are we going to make sure that riders that can't sufficiently hold ground and maneuver around riders not ride at the SW?
Isn't that one of the primary self policing issues? A sign seems cool, but it just sits there. Ultimately a real live person enforces what the sign says, right? Who and how is that going to happen?

Telling a totally clueless person to put down their gear is black and white and quite simple for me to do. Telling a person to hop off the water due to a qualitative judgment gets trickier.

Or do I have it totally backwards? Are we going to basically all take on one kiter under our wing each session and make sure they get back to the launch area at the SW after they drift to the rocks? Are we each going to wrap up their "lesson" to the point that they are somewhat competent?

There has to be a reasonable approach in there somewhere. Don't instructors often evaluate their own students and give them some sort of skill level ranking? Maybe we could have a SW level ranking. It gets tricky fast, no doubt.
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  #17  
Old 08-21-2007, 11:35 PM
Optionryder420 Optionryder420 is offline
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The people that are going to cause problems at the beach past having a few people just talk to them, are always going to cause problems.

If having someone talk to that person and tell them they really shouldn't be riding and it's a danger and they blow them off, how is a colored piece of cloth, or a sign going to help?

The furthest that we should have to go is to have someone or a few people tell the person they're a danger and they need more lessons.

Having signs out there wouldn't solve anything. Because if there are signs there stating rules, and somebody breaks the rules and gets hurt, wouldn't it open up liability for the land owner? You know, since there's nobody there enforcing the rules, it's that persons fault.

For instance, take east beach for example.
We place a sign.
New guy comes out doesn't see it. Gets somebody to launch the kite, or launches it himself. Someone stops the person, tells him about the sign, and he goes and reads it.
New guy decides he's above the rules on the sign (which we all would be anyways since it's just a random sign we concocted and placed without actually having any legal rules).
New guy launches anyways and gets hurt.
He could claim the rules were there, but he didn't see them or there was nobody there to tell him they were there.
New guy decides to press charges against the park.
Park is pissed, bans kiting.

The only way I'd support a sign or any of the other stuff is if it was official. Which I wouldn't want either because if the rules are being enforced, people would be caught breaking them all the time and sooner or later the spot would be banned.

We want to police ourselves without being noticed. A sign is a bad idea. The wristband idea isn't bad, but I don't see it as really working. There are far too many kiters to get them out to everyone whom rides.

I'm not even worried about the beginners so much as the guys whom are jumping WAY too close to shore and jumping in other people's way constantly.
This is an issue that REALLY needs to be addressed. If a new ignorant guy whom has never taken lessons gets hurt, it can be seen as just the guy who grabbed a huge kite and tried to do something stupid. Now, if a more advanced rider goes out and gets hurt/hurts others then we will be more viewed as a whole.

Take for instance Josh (I'm not picking on Josh, I actually never see him jump really close to shore hence why I'm using him).
Let's say Josh is riding off of Redington Beach, jumping close to shore, throwing mobes, showing off for the ladies, and just having a great time. Then on a jump really close to shore something breaks, or something goes wrong and he smashes into a girl, a really hot one even. How will it make us look that one of our Best riders caused such an accident? People will pull for a ban on kiting because if such a competent rider can still cause such an accident then nobody will want ANY riders near them.

Just my $.02
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  #18  
Old 08-22-2007, 01:29 AM
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bryanleighty bryanleighty is offline
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what say we get together Sept 1 (saturday) or Sept 2 (sunday) for a couple hours to have a drink, get some food and discuss the options.

i KNOW that a system in place will never be perfect.. but if we have to try something now before this season.

We can never tell someone they cannot ride at SW.. but if we can identify those new riders before they are on the water we will be one step ahead of where we are right now. If a large portion of the local kiters agrees to something like this I will bet you cash money that a huge percentage of the new riders will see the benefits as well.

signs at the launches might not be feasible .. EB signs might not work as they may make Ft. Desoto liable. not sure on that..

Another major thing to think about... if we have a local organization in place and make it as public as possible it might go a long ways to show that the majority of the group is serious about safety and responsibility. This might come into play if an accident does occur...

We all should take Steve up on his cert offers. I know he mentioned he could do it for cheap for all interested.

Steve if you want to get a date/time in place I bet a number of folks would show up to get certified.
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  #19  
Old 08-22-2007, 09:17 AM
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amber amber is offline
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Cool

I will be in michigan for labor day weekend, but i do have a suggestion to throw out there that is a bit strange to some of you but that has worked in other water activities that i have organized.As soon as i can get a break here today i'll explain it in detail...
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  #20  
Old 08-22-2007, 09:23 AM
popeye
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I'm not really sure where this thread is heading... but i am all for people getting their self recovery cert because recovering boards for people who can't body drag, and recovering kites for people who can't self rescue is getting old. Yeah I always do it, but these are things they should have learned and practiced in their lessons...

However, while that is a start it doesn't take care of the current problem.

Who are going to be the kite cops at the skyway (or anywhere else), and how many of us are going to back them up when they try to convince someone they should not ride at that particular time for whatever reason?

This has to be agreed... if X comes to you and asks for help confronting someone you drop what you are doing and round up a few more people to make it clear it's a group feeling, not just one safety nazi trying to be a dick.

BTW, I did this not long ago with Scott and Bob at PAG and we were pretty much blown off and ignored. I posted our experience here, then it got real ugly, got roasted, but there was finally some positive change... then I heard it was back to square 1 a few weeks later. Hopefully that's not true, we don't ride there anymore.

So, while I am all for doing something, I am not convinced anyone will take it seriously, especially some of the local instructors who are doing their own thing.

I would get a dialog going between instructors before proceeding any further. After all, they are the ones who pushed out all of these new riders at $75-$100/hr so they should be the ones taking the first steps regarding their safety. And who else are these riders going to listen to and respect, but their instructor?

So get all of the instructors to agree on something and I'm sure we'll all go along with it.
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