anyone see..

[Unimog Bob]

Steve-O has always been a good guy to ride with and every time I've seen him ride he sets a good example using best safety practices and acting as a good role model. At the launch he is always friendly helpful and generous with his time and equipment. Scott does make a good point about controlling and influencing what you can. As our largest local retailer of kiting equipment WSW can influence rider behavior through its policies and sponsorships.If I walked into WSW as a total newbie at what point will they sell me a full quiver of gear kites and boards? If I sit through the very good safety lecture and ground orientation can I then buy a whole Butt load of Cab, Nobile, jimmy Lewis stuff and hit the beach. It is a tough nut for any retailer trying to pay the rent and keep the lights on. It is also hypocritical to point a finger at private individuals who a doing all they can to promote safety and preserve access, when you represent a business that has to choose profits over principals.

On a much more important note I got to ride today near Upham the wind was a bit gusty and the waves were a bit mushy, but all in all a great safe session with good friends.

Bob

[inferno]

i had a great afternon sesh at honeymoon.... solid 18 building to about 24
with really nice waves on the outer sandbar.....
man those 07 fuels can jump

Yeah, the beach rocked today.
Thanks for the loaner O.R. kite, Bayflite.

[Steve-O]

I assure you that I am not trying to single out anyone or trying to make anyone look bad. I am just asking the question and discussing philosophy. Severe accidents should open up some healthy conversation regarding riding practice.

I think Scott's philosophy is the best. No matter where you are riding, ride way upwind to give you time to react when shit hits the fan especially if the conditions are more onshore than sideshore. That seems to be the exception and not the norm. This single riding practice can decrease anyone's risk at any spot. It's really a no brainer.

Point also well taken that having good role models and setting a good example will help influence others habits. All in all, we have a very good crew of riders and role models in the Tampa Bay area. I think that is due to alot of great instructors that teach here and call here home. Team riders for WSW are Craig Whiteleather, Gabe Rodriguez, Chad Siple, Brian May, and Mike Hall. I think these guys all set good examples out there, but if there is something I am missing, please let me know and I will address it. Some of our more active instructors are Doug Whidman, Mike Hall, Chase, Sammy, Matt and myself. Again, point very well taken regarding roll models, so please send me a PM if I am missing something here.

I had to speak with a past student of mine today about riding close to shore and taking risks. The first talk didn't work. I addressed him again, and I finally got through. I don't ride Sunset much, but I must say the local crew up there is the safest and most respectful group I have had the priveledge of riding with. It is unfortunate that Sunset will be a mess when Howard Park closes and the windsurfers will take over. Tough times ahead for sure.

Every spot has its hazards, and we are blessed with some beginner friendly locations. I think it should be stated again, that weather knowledge and weather discussion should be an ongoing discussion on and off the beach. Veteran riders educating the newer ones. I can personally say I have learned a ton about the weather patterns and hazards from veterans like Scott just by reading this very forum. I urge any rider to use the forum for that purpose.

Finally, I assure you our philosophy at WSW is sport preservation before profit. We would never sell a kite to a local before instruction. A minimum of 3 hour safety and 2 hour on water lesson would be required before making that sale. You might note we have no big ads in kite mags pushing lessons and promoting Tampa Bay as a place to come. On our website, there is no info regarding kite lessons or instant sign up. If you really look at our marketing of kiteboarding, IMO, it is totally on the down low. Our best form of advertising is word of mouth, and we would like to keep it that way. We have no interest in becoming a Real kiteboarding center. We, just as many of you, want to see the sport grow in a healthy way.

Some good healthy discussion. Thanks for everyone's points of view. Let's continue to ride safe, set the example, and continue to educate the inexperienced.

[bayflite]

Originally Posted by Steve-O

We would never sell a kite to a local before instruction. A minimum of 3 hour safety and 2 hour on water lesson would be required before making that sale.

that is good news!

Originally Posted by Steve-O

(partial quote from other thread)...

1. Focus efforts on your home turf. Promote and create safe riders. Team riders and instructors for a shop should be setting the highest example for safe riding practice. Failure to comply means no more benefit or no more job. Setting the highest example that you can will make an impact on others around you.

I am glad to see you feel this way Steve.

Can we please have a list of the WSW instructors and sponsored riders along with the standards (guidelines) that you expect them to uphold.

Please include information such as the following as a starting point - -

1) The distance from shore they will maintain while riding (both at places like EB and at the Gulf Beaches).
2) Distance from shore they will maintain during lessons.

3) Places that are acceptable to teach. I know you choose to teach in a semi-remote area with boat support.
What standards are WSW instructors held to? Are beach lessons acceptable just off shore with no vessel assistance?
In other words, just walking out 30 feet or so.


It's good to see WSW stepping up to the plate and taking a lead role by setting some examples.
I am certain the WSW team will follow any guidelines you lay down or "lose it" as you say.

It's going to be nice to have so many great role models this season.

I guess you decided to edit the prior post to include who does what.
Surprised it doesn't say "edit". My posts always do when I edit them.
Either way, at least it's up there.

[Steve-O]

I and some others are on our way to Sunset. A great place to teach on a Westerly. Flat water and tons of space.

I will respond later tonight, but all reasonable requests and definately looking forward to leading the charge in being great role models.

I have met about four people at the beaches who did not have lessons.

A couple said they purchased the kite from a store in Largo but did not say which one.

I just finished my lessons but was not riding yet and asked them not to try to fly the kites without lessons but they did it anyway.

It was really a little scary because the kite crashed so many times on the beach with people watching, I could tell they did not know how to launch the kite.

Someone should find the store in Largo and do something about it.

It would be sad to see someone get hurt trying to fly a big kite in the storm.

[Erick]

Originally Posted by kitekristrudo

Someone should find the store in Largo and do something about it.

It would be sad to see someone get hurt trying to fly a big kite in the storm.

I’m not putting in doubt what you saw at the beach on that day but it would be a little bit more helpful if next time you get more specifics. It’s hard to do something about without names or contacts.

[Steve-O]

I pose a question on this forum about safety. Riding location as it relates to wind direction. The question has nothing to do with profits, schools, instructors, or any business for that matter. Just a simple question about safety. Rider to rider if you will.
Let's not forget all the crap that went down with guys laying in hospitals in comas and broken necks this week.

A certain person has masterfully directed the attention towards WSW team riders and instructor practices and riding habits. Taken the attention away from the question at hand. Nice job by the way.

Take this and run with it. Call the shop or send someone in and pretend like you are a new person seeking information for kiteboarding. Likely you will get referred to me. Tell us you want to buy a kite but don't want to take lessons. Load us with your resume of surfing, and skydiving, and that you are and F-16 pilot. See what we say. Ask how many hours of training should you take. Where you will learn. Tell us you want to buy four kites, 2 boards, and all the accessories, but again you don't want lessons.

Or feel free to join me and my students for our safety class that meets every Saturday from 9-12pm. We have one tomorrow. You might get sick of me though, because I sound like a parent. Its three hours of one warning after another. No joke. I don't know why anyone would want to kite after that.

It is so hard to believe that people lie? A dude came in last season and told me his friend was a great kiter of four years and was moving to Miami for school. He was going to learn down there. I sold him the kite, as probably any shop would. I warned him to make sure not to fly this kite until he got with his friend. He agreed. A week later his kite was found by the coast guard floating around Tampa Bay. Got a description of the kite and I knew who it was. Called him up and yup, he put his kite up at Cypress on an East Wind. That dude just flat out lied. I'm sure he wasn't the first, and won't be the last to lie and get gear. Anyone can pick up a phone, say the right thing and get a kite. I am sure I can get my wife to buy one tomorrow from any shop in the country.

If you want the madness to end, then work towards a sport with certified standards much like diving. I would love everyone having to be certified to buy gear. Alot of problems solved IMO. Don't we have to show ID to get a drink or buy cigarettes?

The world is not a perfect place but I can assure you this. I will continue to teach my 3 hour safety class. I will continue to go out and teach the best way I know how in the safest locations I can find. I will work with my instructors to become better and safer teachers. I will continue to tell people to get lessons and to head my warnings. I will continue to pat our team riders on the back and thank them for choosing to do business with us. They are some of our best customers and safest riders in the bay area.

Oh yeah one last thing to this incredibly tiring post. Had a nice lesson with a student of mine Wednesday at Sunset Park. Gentlemen in his 40's. I worked with him for three hours and got him up and riding. He took all my advice. Sat through my safety class, did lots of time on a trainer, and worked on board skills this summer behind his father's boat when there was no wind. Great student. Yesterday he bought a 14M Contra. Great deal by the way at 1099. He showed up back at Sunset and was hanging out on the beach. He asked me if I thought he could put up the kite a practice with it. It was hard, but I told him it was too windy for that size kite and he would have to wait another day when it was less wind. He understood and left. That dude has spent over 20+ hours preparing for this sport, and I still recommended he not go. That was tough.

By the way, that store in Largo is Watersports West.

I think I am going to take a vacation from the forum. It's crazy up in here. Face to face communication is so much better.

Peace out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!