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  #1  
Old 02-26-2007, 08:28 AM
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ricki ricki is offline
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Do you see folks that routinely engage the stopper balls most of the time? That is launching, landing, riding?

Scott, you have a hand on your leash attachment QR when launching, correct?

Bryan, good points. Usually, most of the responsibility should rest with the guy being launched or the pilot. It seems though that it is possible to have a bridle tangle that develops when the kite is picked up for launch and the pilot is 75 ft. away and perhaps unable to clearly see this.

So, new burdens may fall on the helper that previously didn't exist. It would be good to talk this over with your helper prior to launch. Particularly hand signals as well, thumbs up, fist to hold and to never just drop or toss the kite among quite a few other precautions. Just like with C kites, the kite should feel like it wants to fly if it is ready to let it go.
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Old 02-26-2007, 08:57 AM
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Same here... finger in QR loop (which sucks, it needs a ball on it instead.. but thats best for you)... ask launcher to visually inspect all pulleys and bridles when kite fills... steer kite to make sure tension fells correct (surprised this guy didn't find something odd here immediately)... if kite steers ok and wants to take off on it's own, give the thumbs up.

I never self launch in 25+.
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  #3  
Old 02-26-2007, 10:57 AM
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Yeah, this story sounds really familiar to my own 9m Waroo kitemare, which happened in February 2006 in Venice, FL on a strong NW wind.

My wife (who has done kite duty plenty of times) launched the kite, but a bridle wrap caused the kite to start looping right away. I got dragged over 100 yards but, luckily, the wind was perfect sideshore and I had about 4 miles of empty sand (and no bystanders) downwind of me. Otherwise, I could have been seriously injured or killed. I did not sustain a permanent injury, only incurring some minor cuts, strains, and abrasions. I had sand coming out of my ears for days, as well.

Still, my kite looped over 20 times in 25 to 30 mph and my wife got to witness one of the worst kitemares I've ever been involved in. I finally hit the quick release on the chicken loop (it's strange I didn't do so earlier, but I was a bit dazed by events and was still trying to regain control of the kite), and the kite then yanked my leash so hard that it ripped a leash attachment ring out of my Dakine harness. I hit the quick release on the leash, and the kite then drifted down and tumbled down the beach up against a volleyball net and depowered long enough for me to jump up, run down the beach, and grab the kite.

I was really freaked out and didn't kite again for a week or so after that. More importanly, I felt terrible for putting my poor wife through such an ordeal. The kitemare was brutal and for a moment she thought that I was going to get killed.

The accident was caused because I gave the thumbs up to launch before making certain the bridle was clear. I had a nagging suspicion that something wasn't quite right but I knew that the lines were straight, so I didn't catch on to the bridle being wrapped. The strong wind and gustiness amplified the difficulty of making certain everything was fine before I launched.

A wrapped bridle on launch is a preventable error but it is a relatively new type of potential problem for any kiter to encounter, especially a rider transitioning from C kites to a bow or SLE (as I was in February 2006). A bridle wrap can be very hard to see for the kiter holding the bar--the kiter holding the kite should give the bridle a quick look before launching the kite.

This drives home the point that launching any kite is one of the most dangerous moments of any session--if the kite is rigged incorrectly or a bridle is wrapped, all the safety features of a bow or SLE will likely not function.

My own 9m Waroo kitemare happened to me after I had been kiting for five years, as well, so experience alone won't save you. Good luck to the kiters involved in this new accident and I am glad the outcome was not worse. I can certainly sympathize with them. It sucks when a session that promises to be epic instead turns into an epic kitemare.
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  #4  
Old 02-26-2007, 05:24 PM
Skyway Scott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickI View Post
Do you see folks that routinely engage the stopper balls most of the time? That is launching, landing, riding?

Scott, you have a hand on your leash attachment QR when launching, correct?
Rick, I have my fingers in the QR for the kite (c-loop) during launch (I hook in and sheet out while launching).
The QR on the leash would come second in my situation, should things go real wrong.

I activate the stopper quite frequently while riding. I use the new Waroo bar with the dynamic stopper on it.
I always push it away (total depower) before unhooking for a trick.
It is set to total depower while launching and landing, as well.
Having a stopper set to full power during a launch/land would be a bad idea, for certain.
Although from what I have seen, the Best system would depower given where the leash attaches (center lines), I still push the stopper way out before launch/land/unhook.
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Old 02-26-2007, 06:07 PM
bayflite bayflite is offline
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i let go of the bar then grab c-loop w/both hands and unhook
i don't trust some QR's
nice2 have az a last rezort IMO
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Old 02-27-2007, 11:15 AM
JustinZ JustinZ is offline
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Question from this discussion.

I have a cabrinha bow kite and there are only two places to attach a leash to. Either right above the chicken loop, or on the little red ball with a small ring in it that is only attached to one of the inside lines. Obviously it is safer to attach it to the one inside line so in an emergency you can completely kill the kite even if another line breaks or the bridle gets tangled.

Most guys I see out kiteboarding with bow kites attach the leash above the chicken loop so I just followed suit. It makes it easier after a kiteloop to be able to spin the bar to untangle it instead of having to loop it the other way. It seems to me that the only purpose to have the leash attached to the chicken loop at all is for people doing unhooked moves that dont want to lose the kite if they crash. If it is just to be able to unspin the bar freely then what is the point of the leash at all.

My question is: Is there a way to have both? Being able to have your leashed attach to just one inside line (so you can dump all of the kites power by releasing your chicken loop QR) and also have the flexibility to unspin the bar after a kiteloop without the leash getting in the way?

-Justin
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:50 PM
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Yes, 5th line through the bar.
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Old 03-01-2007, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinZ View Post
Question from this discussion.

I have a cabrinha bow kite and there are only two places to attach a leash to. Either right above the chicken loop, or on the little red ball with a small ring in it that is only attached to one of the inside lines. Obviously it is safer to attach it to the one inside line so in an emergency you can completely kill the kite even if another line breaks or the bridle gets tangled.

Most guys I see out kiteboarding with bow kites attach the leash above the chicken loop so I just followed suit. It makes it easier after a kiteloop to be able to spin the bar to untangle it instead of having to loop it the other way. It seems to me that the only purpose to have the leash attached to the chicken loop at all is for people doing unhooked moves that dont want to lose the kite if they crash. If it is just to be able to unspin the bar freely then what is the point of the leash at all.

My question is: Is there a way to have both? Being able to have your leashed attach to just one inside line (so you can dump all of the kites power by releasing your chicken loop QR) and also have the flexibility to unspin the bar after a kiteloop without the leash getting in the way?

-Justin
Justin,

I would put your question directly to the guys at Cabrinha. I have heard that attaching your leash to the reride ball up on the trim strap should be avoided UNLESS you want to solo land. This is a major departure from C kite practice. I was told that you should move your leash attachment to that point from chicken loop attachment for solo landing. Easier said than done with my shorter arms however. Have folks tried this routinely?
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  #9  
Old 03-01-2007, 01:38 PM
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I just heard about another serious flat kite accident with an Instinct. It involved an intermediate kiter out in overpowered conditions with a 12 m kite. Other kiters were reportedly heavily powered on 9 m flat kites. The rider had come into shore, had fully pulled in his trim strap. The kite response to control inputs was reduced by this. The kiter sheeted out, stalling the kite following which he sheeted in. This action initiated a kite loop, pulling the helmeted kiter onshore with some force. He suffered some unspecified minor injury from this.

Kites may reduce response when the trim strap is fully pulled in although not unduly so, unless in marginal winds in my experience. If the response is too mushy, it may mean additional kite tuning is indicated along with line checking to verify that they are still of equal length. Kite lines will stretch out of uniform length as a matter of course, hence checking is always required. It is unknown what the exact cause was in this case. I understand without the helmet his injuries might have been more severe. Be sure to rig the size kite suited for the bottom to middle of actual winds. Avoid flying a kite at the upper limits of its wind range. Can you do it, sure you can but it is more work, less fun and your factor of safety if something goes wrong can be much less.

- So, don't rig too big,
- keep control particularly nearshore,
- test your kite in controlled circumstances in various trims,
- and wear a lid, like this guy did.
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Last edited by ricki; 03-01-2007 at 06:43 PM.
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2007, 11:23 PM
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I just heard from another person that was in this accident. He was one of the other kiters that was hit by the rider as he was dragged along the beach. He made some good points.

Things like:

- Considering use of a leash attachment weak link

- Carrying and using knives when needed without delay (AND gloves)

- And one of my own, when lines are uneven in a traction kite, it will do the Corkscrew of Death.

The kite will usually relaunch repeatedly with slight pauses until something breaks or is released with the Corkscrew of Death. So, always EXPECT the kite to continue to power up after lulls if a bridle snags or breaks. More about this HERE


More details below.

He was rammed from behind by the rider as he was being dragged with quite a bit of force. Once he got back to his feet he had pulled out a knife to cut the lines of the kite. He carries a titanium dive knife having given up on rusting out hook knives. He had his hand over the kite lines and was ready to cut when guys yelled don't cut! He hesitated and then the kite powered up again, cutting this guys finger (the third finger injury in this accident) as the rider powered. It is true that at least two lines from one side of the kite, better more would have to be cut. Still, I was told that if the rider had been seriously injured, he never would have forgiven himself.

It was a new pressure treated 4" x 4" timber embedded in the ground that was broken by the riders shoulder. I was told that main reason it broken instead of the riders shoulder was that there was a knot in the timber at the sand line. The rider hit the timber low increasing the amount of force necessary to break it. Without the knot the rider could have been severely injured and a few inches over possibly killed. I don't think any of these guys wear helmets at this point.

The most important point he made was about the quick release attachment. He feels that it should be secured with a weak link that will set the kite free if there is a depower failure and the bar is dropped. I used to have a problem with C kite leash attachments that would pull free if the kite was released under fairly light winds. This was supported by the apparent infrequency of total depower failures with C kites. The risk ideally should stay with the kiter and not folks downwind. With flat kites I am not as sure at this point. There seem to be a variety of ways of disabling depowering leaving setting the kite free as the primary option. I am aware of cases where depowering was disabled while on the water and the riders had time and past practice to find and open the leash attachment. People don't practice like they should and on land you may not be able to reach or find the leash attachment in time. Perhaps manufacturers should think over a yielding leash attachment. Of course this creates potential issues with folks downwind.

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