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  #11  
Old 02-02-2008, 10:59 AM
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RickI RickI is offline
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Hey Scott,

I moved your manlifting video into a special place all of its own in "Lessons From the Hardside." Added a post I made from kiteforum when this same thing came up again recently. I'll have to dig up details of all those other cases, photos, etc. and add them to your post.
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  #12  
Old 02-02-2008, 11:00 AM
Skyway Scott
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I was wondering about that, Rick. That video is a classic.
When I first saw the video with Jon, I too assumed it was not much wind like Tom is saying.
It really doesn't look windy.

If you guys think your sensors suck, GEEZ, I would be ecstatic if ALL of ours were only 4 knots off
I agree though, 13 compared to 17 knots is night and day.

You know what would be awesome? Showing landing using the leash on the ring. I don't thing one of those vids is on the 'net. (Not a smooth move one... only released from zenith).
I noticed on many sites that sell Cabby's that they mention the bar has a self landing ring. Seeing it in action would help people... tons.
I get asked to show people how to self land moderately often at the beach, so I know there is interest.
The last time was on a Cabrinha. It's a great skill to have, just in case, as you guys already know. I think it's awesome you guys took the time to make the first video.
Making one with use of a leash on the ring would be even more awesome. That way people could do it both ways.
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  #13  
Old 02-02-2008, 11:05 AM
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Not all kites are designed or perform the same way, not even within a given manufacturing line. Why else are there different models? That is why I made it specific to the SB III used in the demo.

I put some fairly heavy handed disclaimers and warnings in the opening post for a reason. It wasn't to discredit other kite models or brands but to state the simple fact that this approach may not work as well with all other flat kites. Some may do it even better, I have no idea. I do know that I would be very careful in evaluating this approach with any kite. As to relaunching unhooked in powered conditions? I would want to be real sure that my kite won't exert excessive power before trying that.

The impressive part of this approach to me is less about a way to solo land (there are already a bunch of ways of doing this after all), but about a way to very substantially depower a kite even beyond what you can do through normal bar inputs. As Jon detailed about his experience in that squall. I think this is a real important point to be carefully considered as an emergency option IF your kite supports it. Not all will.
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  #14  
Old 02-02-2008, 12:29 PM
Skyway Scott
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I guess that's a "no" to the front ring method video.

I wouldn't be overly concerned with the front line leash method of self landing being overly picky about the kite being used with the technique. I have been using the technique since 2001 when Jeff Weiss showed me the mod for a front ring O-shit and technique to self land. It's worked for every kite I have owned (C or SLE) since then. I am pretty confident it work for all the Cabs. Isn't the worse that will happen is that the kite flags out downwind?

It'd be nice to see the video on here, since I think it would be helpful to many. Most won't use it on a regular basis for fear of scratching their kite, but in an emergency I think it'd be good for them to see the basics.
Still, in our society, I understand the fear of putting up a vid trying to help only to have some loser sue you over nothing. That leads to warning statements all over the place, etc. Sad, but true.

If you guys decide not to post the vid using the front line ring, I probably will. "They" can sue me and inherit my debt. ;-)
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  #15  
Old 02-02-2008, 08:16 PM
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Have folks tried launching unhooked like Jon is showing above? Some flat kites I have would exert too much force to do this comfortably, others I am not sure about.

This looks more radical to me than almost anything else. It could even provide a new way to "launch unhooked" to provide some additional safety on launch. Launching unhooked the conventional way holding the bar you may have higher kite loads than when holding the center line on some flat kites.

Also, with kites that work with this above control bar tensioning of the centerline assembly, it could provide yet another option in allowing even more depowering that might be achieved with bar input alone in high wind emergencies, again in some models.

Not encouraging a bunch of folks to go out and tear things up in moderate to high wind. I would try gently tensioning the center line (chicken loop) assembly above the bar in light wind, with a detached kite leash, with a huge clear buffer area downwind, with a helper to try to intercept the kite, etc.. Take it slow, evaluate how your kite responds and let us know.

Scott, if you have the spin landing video email me the link, file, whatever and I'll put it up. I am pretty sure I've seen it online somewhere although it could have been years back.
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  #16  
Old 02-02-2008, 10:18 PM
jon modica jon modica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyway Scott View Post
I guess that's a "no" to the front ring method video.

I wouldn't be overly concerned with the front line leash method of self landing being overly picky about the kite being used with the technique. I have been using the technique since 2001 when Jeff Weiss showed me the mod for a front ring O-shit and technique to self land. It's worked for every kite I have owned (C or SLE) since then. I am pretty confident it work for all the Cabs. Isn't the worse that will happen is that the kite flags out downwind?

It'd be nice to see the video on here, since I think it would be helpful to many. Most won't use it on a regular basis for fear of scratching their kite, but in an emergency I think it'd be good for them to see the basics.
Still, in our society, I understand the fear of putting up a vid trying to help only to have some loser sue you over nothing. That leads to warning statements all over the place, etc. Sad, but true.

If you guys decide not to post the vid using the front line ring, I probably will. "They" can sue me and inherit my debt. ;-)
Hey Scott,
i think it would be best for people not to rely on the leash

the reason this method for landing works so well is

1. even if you screw up, you will be 100% safe

2. by using this technique you learn an important lesson on KITE CONTROL!!

-Jon
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  #17  
Old 02-02-2008, 11:16 PM
Skyway Scott
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No worries. I am going to stick with what works for me. You guys can stick with what works for you.
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  #18  
Old 02-03-2008, 08:01 AM
Tom Stock
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I am actually surprised Rick would recommend this method... seems unlike his usual concerns for safety.

This is an ok method to get the kite down, up until the point that the bar is on the ground, and you are holding onto one front line with BOTH hands.

A relaunch at that point (in REAL 25) could be very very nasty (even worse y if the rider is standing on top of or in front of the bar which is now laying on the ground with lines drapped over it) or the lines tangle around his fingers or leg when it the kite goes through the power zone.

Instant power, zero kite control, and possibly a hot launch. It's going to pull the lines through your fingers (cutting them or worse if the lines tangle around your fingers) and then the kite is going to power up and boom you are lofted with bar and lines in an unknown state.

So yes it works in a pinch, but no way in hell I would do it in 25 (after trying it many times in 15mph).

Just spend the 10 bucks and put a ring on the front line. It's only 10 bucks and it's worked for the past 5 years on every brand of kite.
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  #19  
Old 02-03-2008, 09:24 AM
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Tom, I am not recommending anything. I am telling people about something novel that I saw. If they want to try it I am advising substantial cautions and to tell us how things went. If they don't want to try it, don't, simple.

You are questioning the validity of the wind report from ikitesurf, fine. One thing I would strongly advise you not to ignore, is that this will not work equally well with all kites.

Do not expect to have light enough line pressures to be able to relaunch as Jon did with all kites out there. If you drop the kite down and it bounces much, you probably will have too much line tension to easily do this with. This is the case with some of my current kites. I don't have any new Cabrinha kites, haven't tried it with any of the old first generation BOWs that I do have. My Waroo bounces quite a bit, the Waroo Pro may be more quiet, need to check it out more. I would not try the relaunch technique either unless the kite is very quiet with minimal line pressure. That is where the warnings about nasty injuries come in which could happen if things go really wrong. NONE of the manufacturers that I know about describe or recommend this procedure, it seems to be both new and novel. Their kites weren't designed with this aspect in mind after all, so have a care.

I don't like to use the spin the kite landing technique with any of my current kites except in very light winds. Too many ruptured leading edges have been caused by doing this over almost the last decade.
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  #20  
Old 02-03-2008, 10:49 AM
Skyway Scott
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Are you guys still recommending that someone performing a self landing (of any method) attach their leash to the front line attachment if available to them?
Or just not use a leash?
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