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  #21  
Old 05-24-2008, 02:27 PM
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kites4food kites4food is offline
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Default From the Reasonable Bandit

I've always wondered why Miami is lacking a group organization or effort to speak as a unified voice on behalf of kiteboarding in the area. Reading a thread like this explains it all. Other areas have associations with enough power to affect airport construction and flight patterns. We can't even agree on the right way to pick our noses.

Why? Obviously anger is above reason. But, there is a reason for everyone's anger....Pretty deep, right? I just made that up. But think about it. Anger is healthy. If you feel someone has wronged you, you get pissed. Look at all the emotional buttons that have been pushed.

1) Oliver sees us at Hobie. Boom. He's pissed. Reaction? He Yells, "I'm calling Kent to get you guys shut down".

2) Kent gets pissed. Boom. He puts out a bounty for photos of teaching and riding dangerously. He influences others to bad mouth the schools that he feels violate safety rules

3) Ken gets pissed. Boom. He calls Kent a Dictator employing mafia techniques.

3) Francisco gets pissed. Boom. He brings up the history of Alex's death, implying that Kent is throwing stones in a glass house.

4) Paul gets Pissed. Boom. He's coming up to review everyone's credentials and crack a Yeungling bottle over Francisco's head.

So the anger is flying. And honestly, as childish as it may seem, Anger is often justified and healthy. Sure things should be said diplomatically, but anger will always win over diplomacy. And I would rather have honest anger than false smiles and handshakes.

Although you may like dealing with me more, I am not the spokesman for Skybanditz. I am half of a partnership that was started by Francisco, the explosive grease-monkey. So again, you don't get to dictate that he doesn't show up to a community meeting. In fact, since the real effort here is to get Skybanditz in line, I would think you should want to deal with both of us.

Kent, I see the positive intention of the meeting at Berries. But two things to consider: Is this the urgent moment to line up all the emotional buttons and pour some beer on top? I think there needs to be a cooling off period first. Secondly, I've been to a meal at Berries with you before. I hope you don't take it the wrong way, but you're like Jesus in the center of the table leading every conversation. We need a collaborator more than a charismatic leader. I say that as a joke, but I don't think that we could expect you not to try and lead the entire meeting just as we cannot expect Francisco or Paul not to speak their minds.

What's the bottom line? You want us to teach how and where you want us to teach. Paul wants everyone to do the due diligence and paperwork that he has done. Christophe apparently wants us to Body drag students out to the Hobie sandbar! But you know what? We are all independent businesses and competitors. We don't work together or agree on everything. And to think that we will is naive. I could start a movement to pressure EVERY retailer in the area to ONLY sell kites to card carrying Level III operators. Sounds safe to me! I could say that anyone selling a kite to someone who has not had instruction is like giving a car to an unlicensed kid, or an airplane to a blind man. Well there is no law that says you have to qualify your clients so I can't make you do it. So then maybe I should pressure EVERY retailer to offer 2 free hours of lessons with every full kit purchase. Skybanditz does it because we don't want our customers to get hurt on the gear we sell them. But you know what? Your business is none of my business. And yes, you may do some things that I think will jeopardize the sport. But I'm not the law, and neither are any of you.

Why don't we take a break for a week. Kite Nite at Cheeseburger in Paradise is the first Thursday in June. Everyone is welcome. Everyone can talk. You can even fight in the parking lot. Food is Free.
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  #22  
Old 05-24-2008, 03:05 PM
The Kite House The Kite House is offline
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Ken, please dont say i will want to hit franciso over the head with a bottle, i did not say that. I will confront him on these issues, as i dont feel it is good to do it here, as i didnt apreciate his coments. I feel when i really have something to say, i am better off in person, people then seem to be different.


Anyway, there is a real problem there and i think its time its adressed. This hurts my bussiness as well, as it gives people a fear. I spend alot of money each year on licences and insurance to go acroding to the law and teach safe as possible, thats why we go by boat. As far as i know miami kiteboarding is the only other school licenced to teach, them being in crandon. You have to admit, there is some pretty scary people teaching. SO what do we do? Well if no one will listen and argue we could go with the letter of the law.

I really feel as a bussiness person and an instructor that we try to give our students the safest enviorment possible, this is when they learn. Yes i could see taking someone who has now learned to ride safely to an enviorment that is not friendly to guide them through the steps if learning there. I do not agree to teach them someone on shore where the smallest mistake can result in the parking lot. So where does it all go, do we go meet with local and county officils and blow the whiste on if they are allowed to teach? We know there not. This is the end of the season, but i can tell you it will not continue for the next. This all scares me and represent to the rest of the public in the sport.

Also there are many other people, so fransico is not the target. Camilio, Big kite miami and more. Fransico is just the one who puts his foot in his mouth, he should think before he speaks, would get a better reaction, plus looks very poor for business.

Anyway, i am off to go kite with some people who are really stoked to do it.
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  #23  
Old 05-24-2008, 03:54 PM
gomogli gomogli is offline
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Here is to you my little Genius!!!!!

1. You guys are ripping of people

2 You guys are always in the middle if something bad happens

3 You guys are illegal

4 You guys have NEVER EVER done anything for the sport

5 And then you wonder why NOBODY ever shows up to your partys besides your paying(threw their noses) customers.....

6 Way to go SKYBANDITZ Enterprise, everybody that knows whats going on ,knows that you guys are a JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7 Keep Bodydragging your customers at Hobie Beach right into the EMERGENCY Room........
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  #24  
Old 05-24-2008, 04:01 PM
gomogli gomogli is offline
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KEN RUSSEL SKYBANDITZ KITEBOARDING CENTERS ,
i think you mean teaching out of the trunk of your car wherever, whenever you can cut corners and doing it illegal..........

Way to go...............

We will make sure we spread the word about you guys from now on.....and contact the approbriate authorities about you guys, thats a promise, and remember YOU GUYS are the guys making money not me, or the other riders that just want to enjoy....so maybe its time for you guys to move on.....wherever.....
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  #25  
Old 05-24-2008, 10:24 PM
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RickI RickI is offline
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Hey Mudslider,

Interesting commentary and on the lighter side too. Please add your complete name to the post so that I don't have to move it, OK?

We're doing this one in the light of day with actual identities as you can see in posts above this one.

This is a sensitive topic. Given that we are talking about preserving access, livelihoods and a productive discussion, people need to give their full name and use reasonable restraint in this thread to avoid having their post moved.

Thanks for your cooperation.
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Last edited by RickI; 05-25-2008 at 07:58 AM.
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  #26  
Old 05-25-2008, 12:56 AM
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linhster linhster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslider View Post
Hobie has been, is and will be a major accident waiting to happen but it is in no way Skybanditz's fault...
As an outsider (non-operator in Miami area), I and many other riders do depend on the information on this forum to help me make a educated decision to:

-launch and ride locations that is not my "home" area. I think that it is a very important resource of information that we (many who do not live in miami) relied on to help us when we visit the area.

-learn from people that we TRUST to offer us the safest (as safe as the sport can offer) environment to continue to develops our skills in the sport.

I am puzzled at why with the fact that this area has been dangerous to anyone that is not an advance rider that anyone would still teach there. Sure you will not stop anyone who does not use common sense or understand how dangerous the sport is to them or other, from riding there. What can be prevented is that inexperience riders are not guided there by a local rider/instructor with experience.

With that said, I do believe that your actions speak louder than words. So if "Hobie has been, is and will be a major accident waiting to happen" then isn't it obvious to not continue to teach there?

Linh Nguyen
A concern kiter!

Last edited by linhster; 05-25-2008 at 07:26 AM. Reason: adding my name
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  #27  
Old 05-25-2008, 10:18 PM
The Kite House The Kite House is offline
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Not sure i am clear on this, but just explain to me:

locals guard the beach from newbies? Now, the acidents that have been heard of in the last years have been riders or people being instructed. I belive the spot is very intimadating to someone who knows nothing.

I dont care about competion, it is good for business, how can you show what service you have, but when you have people teaching someone illegal and having mishaps, acidents, well thats bad for the sport and business. Sorry this is the world and says you need to play by the rules[so does the state]

so i dont agree with the reasoning about that. Should be no teaching period there....i dont even ride there anymore.

So the local riders can matain riders and if you make it as a no teach zone, then i think these others wont teach there, they give the misconcecption its safe to do so. Make it so, jsut make it a no teach zone period, if you do this you dont need the state or officals, i am sure these others will feel the presure and stay out. They already have the "other spots"

P.S i guess if i was a real dick and was only worried about having competion, i would have gone to authorities years ago and had them all shut down. My goal has been to offer a better alternitive than the rest and really if thats what they do, well thats there liabilty to deal with. I would say remember this:
With no insurance or licence if someone gets hurt while being instructed and trys to sue, the instructor has nothing so they go to the next and in reality all of the spots will just be shut down. Trust me look around the rest of the USA and world, its already going on. Its eaiser to just get rid of all of it than try to regulate, so i think that should be our worrie besides the fact of a student ending up in the parking lot.....i guess.
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Last edited by The Kite House; 05-26-2008 at 10:53 PM.
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  #28  
Old 05-25-2008, 10:37 PM
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RickI RickI is offline
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Sorry for the slow comeback, far from the Internet for most of the day. Mudslider, the requirement for providing names was put in the sixth post and repeated a few times. All this was up well before your post. Oliver was identified on the first page. Some of his posts and Francisco's were moved early on in the interest of keeping things focused.

I've been using my name on posts for seven years? It is amazing what you can get done out in the open without a concealed identity. It is less amazing how screwed up things can become when there is no attached identity or accountability in topic people are passionate about.

Anyway, I didn't perceive anything so amiss in your posts to bar you from wanting to be associated with what you wrote. If you change your mind, I would be happy to move them back. I would request that you not post under this topic without your name. Rules again, but society would be a mess without them.

Back to the topic, please keep the constructive comments coming. Hobie has had problems for many years. It would be good to iron some of them out, finally.
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  #29  
Old 05-27-2008, 04:23 PM
OttoNP OttoNP is offline
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As another outside, Nick from MI. I look around these forums as well when I travel. Rick gave me some great tips last time I came down to Florida.

I haven't seen this spot, but from what I read I also don't understand why anyone would teach there.

There are several schools in my area and there are definite spots where none of them will teach at.

Also, from this thread I can definitely tell which schools are responsible and which aren't...
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  #30  
Old 05-27-2008, 05:24 PM
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BigR BigR is offline
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Quote:
but from what I read I also don't understand why anyone would teach there.
because without a boat there are only two places where kiteboarding from land is not restricted by govt officials in Miami ( not counting Crandon ). These are Hobie bch and Matheson hammock. ( There is also a third place but I'll never tell anyone so don't ask ). Unfortunately the next kiting spots are South @ Homestead bayfront park which is quite a ways or North @ Miami bch 87th ave.

IMO, the instructors should just get a jetski and problem would be solved by teaching in open water. This would also give the student a much higher quality lesson.
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