2011 - 40 kt SQUALL vs. 11 m Crossbow

Any frontal activity, is due to temperature inversions. Large squall lines not only produce wind gusts and lots of rain, but also carry a lot of energy in the form of electricity in these clouds.
Look at the radar picture and lightning strikes reported in the above video.

Any one who wants to sit with a 100 feet conductive line through a squall or any gusty situation, needs their head examined.
Just because you don't see lightning and don't hear thunder, does not mean there is no activity. Cloud to Cloud lightning is 80% of a thunderstorm or squall line. That is why airplanes stay at least 20 miles away or more, as a lightning strike in an aircraft is a very serious condition.
Don't fly a kite in electrically active weather !

Complimenting a kite capabilities should not include the windgust capabilities in these weather conditions.
Kiters NEED to be off the water, anytime this kind of weather phenomenon is being observed. Don't ride until the last minute because it's cool and exciting.
I guess we have to wait for the first kiter to get fried before sanity comes around on this subject.

Clear and simple. GET OUT and OFF the water.

[ricki]

I agree and for far more reasons beyond what you list. Squalls can create violent wind direction and speed shifts that you can't keep a kite flying in. It will stall and perhaps be relaunched spinning out of control, what then? Offshore windshifts are common and killed kiters in the past. Depower is great but can only do so much in sustained wind. Squalls aren't that well behaved, believe it.

You're a professional commercial jet pilot, what are some of the reasons you don't fly through squalls aside from electrical considerations?

Originally Posted by thebestkite

Any frontal activity, is due to temperature inversions. Large squall lines not only produce wind gusts and lots of rain, but also carry a lot of energy in the form of electricity in these clouds.
Look at the radar picture and lightning strikes reported in the above video.

Any one who wants to sit with a 100 feet conductive line through a squall or any gusty situation, needs their head examined.
Just because you don't see lightning and don't hear thunder, does not mean there is no activity. Cloud to Cloud lightning is 80% of a thunderstorm or squall line. That is why airplanes stay at least 20 miles away or more, as a lightning strike in an aircraft is a very serious condition.
Don't fly a kite in electrically active weather !

Complimenting a kite capabilities should not include the windgust capabilities in these weather conditions.
Kiters NEED to be off the water, anytime this kind of weather phenomenon is being observed. Don't ride until the last minute because it's cool and exciting.
I guess we have to wait for the first kiter to get fried before sanity comes around on this subject.

Clear and simple. GET OUT and OFF the water.

[ricki]

Back to the video, what you saw happened strange as it was. The rider shouldn't have been there but was anyway. He isn't alone, lots of kiters find themselves in squalls, by accident, indifference or lack of appreciation for the teeth of the things. I sure as hell recommend against it, always, but folks will fall into it anyway by intent or accident at times.

Transitioning from kite low to the water to the zenith in stronger than gale force winds would be expected to send you flying. It is dangerous in short. The conventional wisdom is to keep your kite low, at the edge of the window and be ready to send the lot free if you screw up and are caught in a squall. Activating the IDS comes to mind again early. Parking it at the zenith usually would be expected to be a formula for a bad lofting but wasn't in this case, why not? Lots of questions worth discussing instead of flaming as in the other forum. I would expect different kites to potentially behave differently too. As Kent said a CB I might invert, I had one do that years back, pulled a corner out of the kite and bent a solid carbon bar (in clear gusty weather).




Here's another case, involving a 16 m BOW kite in a fairly weak squall, only gusted to about 30 mph. Lots of guys have been injured in killed in gusts of that speed, even lower so don't be deceived. Anyway, it struck him so fast, didn't push the bar out or Emergency Depower before the squall hit unfortunately, that he was climbing and well up before he really knew what happened. With a strong upward component varying the angle of attack of the kite doesn't do much at all. He kept going up.

Hanging out in squalls is a fools game, bad things will happen that skill and even great kite technology can't deal with. More than that we just screw up at times and fail to do the right thing. So, stay out of them.

Originally Posted by RickI

I agree and for far more reasons beyond what you list. Squalls can create violent wind direction and speed shifts that you can't keep a kite flying in. It will stall and perhaps be relaunched spinning out of control, what then? Offshore windshifts are common and killed kiters in the past. Depower is great but can only do so much in sustained wind. Squalls aren't that well behaved, believe it.

You're a professional commercial jet pilot, what are some of the reasons you don't fly through squalls aside from electrical considerations?

In many aspects all unknown bring inherently many dangers.
But here are many things we do know about these weather phenomenons.

The structural load of aircraft is limited and in thunderstorms and squalls these are far exceeded from certification numbers.
No kite is every test flown by any company and said to be o.k. in those conditions. No kite company would dare take that liability.
All certification of aircraft loads are static testing until it breaks. On the GROUND ! Only the dead pilots are the tribute of showing they went one storm to deep. And I know of a few that just made a bad decision.

RADAR is the eyes for the pilots in those clouds. Many times a picture drawn on a screen is not even a great reproduction of what is happening in front of you, and that picture may rapidly change in the next two minutes. And your escape plan just went out the window and your in for a ride of your lifetime, with the only thought, how you would ever come out alive and NEVER will do it again.
Are kiters good at (bottom) cloud reading and speculate what is above? CB, wind pattern shifts, hail, lighting ?? Many I have seen caught in windshifts and rainstorms because they wanted one more tack to go out.

And the simple why is it necessary to be this close to something that can change so rapidly. Calculated risk is made with most sports, but here is a variable most others stay away from.

A few years ago, I copied from the FAA an acronym: IM SAFE and it was posted on different BB's.

I Illness - Do I have an illness or any symptoms of an illness?
M Medication - Have I been taking prescription or over-the-counter drugs?
S Stress - Am I under psychological pressure from the job? Worried about financial matters, health problems or family discord?
A Alcohol - Have I been drinking within eight hours or less ?
F Fatigue - Am I tired and not adequately rested?
E Eating - Am I adequately nourished?

A simple rule yet in the many deaths I have seen here in Europe, and with limited reporting abroad, I can say that in most cases this IM SAFE rules was compromised in one way or more. Unfortunately
riding in unsafe conditions and unsafe locations and unsafe equipment only make this worse.

Even that someone who flew into my building may have compromised one of these rules.

So I hate to read about kite accidents, my most beloved sport.
Everyday I can wait for wind, but that day will be over when I handicap myself out of this world.

[ricki]

Lots of good points thanks for posting them! Did you ever hear the story of the 35 or so Luftwaffe sailplane pilots who were tasked to evaluate storm clouds in the 1930's. They actually intentionally flew into Cumulonimbus clouds to try to evaluate the conditions. Amazingly, I think two pilots actually survived, though I am not sure how. The winds and conditions inside these monsters can pale what happens outside, 120 mph winds straight up, hail, perpetual white out, not a nice place for humans. Heard stories of hang gliders getting sucked into CB clouds and spat out on the landscape miles away, expired and iced over in a fetal ball. They couldn't dive fast enough to escape the clouds in some cases before they were vacuumed up into hypoxic conditions above 12,000 ft..

Good rule, "Im Safe." If it doesn't feel right or if you aren't feeling stoked about the session blow it off. It may blow you away otherwise. You are right, these things have factored in some accidents.

Isn't another part of the avoidance of powered flight into CB or storm clouds is the unstable flight characteristics, tendency to stall, be blown into loops or other erratic flight? I recall something like this from ground school but that was about 17 years ago. If so, I think it relates well to kiting. If a 747 isn't rated to fly through the influence of one of these storms, where the hell do we get off thinking we can handle it with a passive kite and body weight? Some commercial pilots have been killed kiting in squalls which frankly amazes me. We need to take weather seriously, it can still take you out whether you think about it or not.