WHAT WENT WRONG? - Summary Of Ft. Lauderdale Lofting & Videos

ricki · #1 08-20-2008, 10:15 PM

So, it's ok for aircraft to fly through cumulonimbus clouds, the FAA is all wet requiring avoidance, for pilots to skip weather briefings, or oceanliners to steam into hurricanes instead of away from them, how about to send people into wild fire zones instead of the opposite direction to safety, why not go cross country hang gliding with no clue about intervening weather conditions, or towup hang gliding at noon in the Everglades when incredibly violent thermals cook off, or go kiteboarding when you know microburst are inbound, grounding 747's but it's ok to go kiting, or undertake a ski mountaineering without an idea for what weather is inbound or here's a good one, why not blow off weather information from all areas except the immediate vicinity? If there is a hurricane inbound, we'll worry about it when it arrives, advanced warning and precautions are for chumps. Who needs to take sensible precautions born of harsh knowledge gained from so many needless accidents.

A man has been hurt grievously and thankfully is recovering. Another man two days before was also lofted in another squall, he also hit buildings and pavement. Luck was not with him that day and the world is a poorer place for the loss of a neurosurgeon, someone's husband and father. Let's not blow off the harsh lessons for this and so many other hazardous weather related accidents and fatalities. Weather related kiteboarding accidents are FAR from random and almost always predictable and avoidable to varying degrees. I would ask that we not discount what these men went through and so many others saying, ignore this stuff and take your chances. You never know what sort of winds a squall will kick out to pretend otherwise is ill advised in the extreme. Knowing our environment and competently excelling in it should be a goal and source of pride in our sport. Not something to close our eyes to and say, I feel lucky today, do you?

b-rad · #2 08-20-2008, 10:36 PM

your right...and I'm with you...747's grounded but we go kite...

so who's to blame? every kite that was out on monday/tues? or just the ones who got hurt?

the best surf is when there are "no swimming, rip currents" signs posted all over the beach...the "pros" are out and Jonny surf wants to go have some fun and drowns...

This is not an argument! We feel the same! But how do we turn all this talking (9 yrs or so) into something that will save lives? Can it be done?

ricki · #3 08-20-2008, 10:40 PM

Yes, Brad, I truly believe it can be changed. There are so many other activities which started with poor practices and improved over time. Can you imagine that there once was resistance to decompression in diving?! True story, and helmets in football, use of BCs and pressure gages in SCUBA diving, redundant hang straps in hang gliding, reserve chutes in sky diving ... this could go on all night.

We learn and we can adapt. We need to incorporate weather awareness into kiteboarding culture just as the above precautions were blended into the cultures of so many other activities. How do you do that? Glad you asked ... I have lots of ideas including things that have already been launched but it would be good to hear from others on this. So, how do you think it might be done?

b-rad · #4 08-20-2008, 11:06 PM

I'm with ya...and the dude last night is alive today because of his airbag...

So how can we incorporate more weather awareness into kiting culture? Quick releases do very little imo...just like parachutes do little in aircraft...

Our sport is defined in part by the conditions...

It gets good when it gets bad...

16m kites in 12 knots is ok...(but really sucks)...everyone likes to be lit on small kites, when it's the most dangerous....so what do we do with that?

and again, who is to blame? everyone out the last few days or just the guys who got hurt?

Steve-O · #5 08-20-2008, 11:35 PM

I wouldn't feel hopeless. One must first face the fact that you are not going to get through to everyone. There will always be someone like Kevin that has likely been warned 100 times but continues to push the limits. Some survive with that attitude in life, and some don't.

Three things come to mind as an instructor in the Tampa Bay area that will have a direct impact.

1. Focus efforts on your home turf. Promote and create safe riders. Team riders and instructors for a shop should be setting the highest example for safe riding practice. Failure to comply means no more benefit or no more job. Setting the highest example that you can will make an impact on others around you.

2. Increase training beyond the hands on skills. It seems that many schools focus on the water skills with theory as a suppliment. I feel it should be the other way around. Focus on the theory and enhance with water skills. For every 1 hour of on water training, 1 hour should be spent on theory training. So 3-4 hours of private water lessons should accompany 3-4 hours of lecture.

At our shop we spend 3 hours in lecture with our students before any water skills are taught. I am considering adding an addition 2 hours of lecture completely focused on weather planning and assessment.

For those of you that teach out there, I can first hand tell you that my students appreciate this lecture and builds a strong foundation in theory. After teaching this theory based class for over a year now, 3 hours is not nearly enough.

Rick has asked to share my curriculum, and I will do so in the near future. One might ask, what can I talk to my student about for 3-5 hours, and I assure you there is plenty to talk about and plenty of information to share. Not to mention it is a win win for the school and the student financially.

3. Create a voluntary buddy system. Ask seasoned riders to be mentors to new riders. A new rider armed with all this information and some skill always has tons of questions and still needs assistance on their road to self sufficiency. Private lessons are completed but a mentor might help fill that gap in learning. Instructors are mentors already, but maybe that student feels they are troubling them. With a mentor, a new kiter has someone they can always go to for advice until they truly start understanding all the concepts. This mentor would also make efforts to keep an eye on this person for awhile and keep them from harms way. Smart newbies find a mentor naturally, but setting up a system might encourage and connect new riders with seasoned riders. Not to mention, the seasoned rider might learn something from the whole experience. This would make them question there riding practice and look at the sport from a different point of view.

Kent, we both know that incidents like this will continue. But it's sometimes in our darkest hour that we grow.

OttoNP · #6 08-21-2008, 08:09 AM

It is always hard to get accidents down to 0%, maybe impossible. Doesn't mean it is ineffective. I would guess that if you compare kiting accident percentages over the years they are going down because of the efforts of many, including Rick, to get safe information out there. Unfortunately you never know how many people read the forum warning from Rick and chose not to go out in Fay. I would guess there is a lot of people. Or how many people now check weather more because of it.

I will tell anyone I see to stop doing whatever I think is dangerous, I'd say most listen and stop, but some people just don't care - an accident in their case is simply a matter of time, which sucks...

b-rad · #7 08-21-2008, 11:16 AM

Guys, I'm not feeling hopeless...and not expecting to get fatalities down to 0% (although that would be nice)...my intentions are to help prevent this from happening again...

But, where do we draw the line? When is a cloud a squall? Sometimes that cloud passing by is nice and sometimes it can kill you- How gusty is too gusty? How big a wave is too big??????????

And Rick, sending someone into a wildfire is not the same...(I see your point) but we dont play with fire...we do play with wind...and surely nobody should encourage someone to go out in narly conditions if the're not ready...

Many, many, many kiters can't wait for the next tropical system to swing on by and give us some awesome conditions...how do we try to differentiate between good tropical systems and bad ones?

And again I ask, should everyone out that day be to blame? or just the ones who had accidents?

KiteworldUSA · #8 08-22-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickI

So, it's ok for aircraft to fly through cumulonimbus clouds, the FAA is all wet requiring avoidance, for pilots to skip weather briefings, or oceanliners to steam into hurricanes instead of away from them, how about to send people into wild fire zones instead of the opposite direction to safety, why not go cross country hang gliding with no clue about intervening weather conditions, or towup hang gliding at noon in the Everglades when incredibly violent thermals cook off, or go kiteboarding when you know microburst are inbound, grounding 747's but it's ok to go kiting, or undertake a ski mountaineering without an idea for what weather is inbound or here's a good one, why not blow off weather information from all areas except the immediate vicinity? If there is a hurricane inbound, we'll worry about it when it arrives, advanced warning and precautions are for chumps. Who needs to take sensible precautions born of harsh knowledge gained from so many needless accidents.

A man has been hurt grievously and thankfully is recovering. Another man two days before was also lofted in another squall, he also hit buildings and pavement. Luck was not with him that day and the world is a poorer place for the loss of a neurosurgeon, someone's husband and father. Let's not blow off the harsh lessons for this and so many other hazardous weather related accidents and fatalities. Weather related kiteboarding accidents are FAR from random and almost always predictable and avoidable to varying degrees. I would ask that we not discount what these men went through and so many others saying, ignore this stuff and take your chances. You never know what sort of winds a squall will kick out to pretend otherwise is ill advised in the extreme. Knowing our environment and competently excelling in it should be a goal and source of pride in our sport. Not something to close our eyes to and say, I feel lucky today, do you?

Man, I've been battling the press since this happened! Seems the overall vibe from the media is that he shouldn't have been out there.....all except for FOX News which all but condemned the sport itself!!! Sometimes we get lucky and are able to keep these stories out of the main media thanks to insiders most of the time, but this one was being broadcast in hawaii at the end of the day. We are all pulling for Kevin's speedy recovery but just remember in big conditions comes big attention. Next time I want to see a positive piece on this to counter the negative.

Fly safe,

Brian

davewolfs · #9 08-22-2008, 04:57 PM

As important as weather conditions are, In reading this I'm finding that people continually blame this accident on the weather. The harsh reality is that yes this accident could have been avoided if proper precautions were taken, but even experienced riders sometimes have complications. You cannot bank solely on being safe based on your weather conditions, especially since it is something that is completely out of our control.

Great efforts have been made on the equipment front in order to improve safety of the sport and I'm sure there is still room for improvement.

For those who are experienced, if you were faced with question "Is there room for improvement with respect to making your gear safer, i.e. a better release system" do you really feel that all riders would say that the current system in place is perfect.

Self awareness of your surroundings is extremely important and in my opinion something that all trainers should spend a great deal of time in emphasizing. I also feel that people need to start thinking a little bit deeper from an equipment stand point on areas that can be improved upon i.e. guaranteeing your release when in a position where you have been immobilized - something like this could potentially prevent injuries while adding value to the sport.

ricki · #10 08-22-2008, 08:37 PM

Good point Dave, accidents are almost always the result of a series of choices and related events. In this case however, the most overwhelming factors exceeding all others included the state of the weather and where the rider was located, how and when he responded to those changes.

The weather issue cannot be emphasized enough as I sense a good percentage of kiteboarders out there don't see all that much wrong with exposing themselves to squalls. There has been too many accidents and losses involving guys going out in violent weather to support such a practice. Consider the global attention and potential negative sentiment bonded to our sport in public perception from this one accident. Whether kiteboarders want to go out in unsafe conditions or not, public perception and perhaps policy will be influenced by how things go.

Folks looking to consider some of the factors involved in having a good session, with lower chance of incidents, accidents and threats to access might read over the following draft document. It is in revision to try to encompass all the changes brought on by flat kites vs. traditional C kites. Still, there is a lot of relevant content there. Some of those other issues you were referring to might be found there as well Dave.

http://fksa.org/showthread.php?t=2781

These guidelines were derived from the evaluation of hundreds of incidents, accidents and losses and have been revised numerous times over many years. They seem detailed but in reality this is just a portion of what is good to know. As I said, it is still being updated and is provided for informational purposes only.

You can examine quite a few other cases which have been pulled together along with some general articles with the goal of reducing accident/incident repetition and building the safety of the sport at:

http://fksa.org/forumdisplay.php?f=29
and
http://fksa.org/forumdisplay.php?f=12

All kiters need to know almost without thought how to Emergency Depower whatever kite they happen to be using at the time. They also need to be familiar with what it takes to release their kite entirely in a true crisis when Emergency Depowering fails to work. New kite? Then you need to work on this early. Quite a few guys have been in incidents involving new and not real familiar gear.

For years we used to say not rely upon quick releases in a crisis as they might not work as intended. Today, releases may be more reliable but our reactions may not have changed all that much. Often we have only seconds to act but fail to do so for a variety of reasons. The goal needs to be to avoid the emergency/crisis in the first place. Have your kite well secured and on the beach before there is any change in wind speed, direction or temperature related to the squall. If conditions are too stormy (as in a good portion of TS Fay), the holes too small or honestly exceeding your current experience and skill, blow off the session, live to kite another day.