Time to get organized.. stop the b.s. and get some stuff done.

I do agree that getting organized is not going to draw negative attention. If we ask for a sign to be posted, they will either be impressed, or just not care at all.

One thing is certain, we have to do SOMETHING, and we have to stick to it.

[TampaBay Noob]

People don't follow traffic signs...why would they follow one of ours? Signs are only good if they are enforceable, which ours is not. If noobs want to ride they're gonna ride. They don't realize their skill level. It took me 3months of riding before I was self-sufficient and would even show my face to you guys at our launches. New riders are going straight to the skyway after the lesson. WE need to police it...not a sign. The police could care less about us putting a sign up. Unfortunately, nobody follows the signs they put up.

You are right, but most newbs will not know if it's enforceable or not.

And, as long as a few people point it out and enforce it themselves, it is in effect enforced. Sure they could give you the finger and you couldn't do anything about it... but then again you could kick their ass for it too. But I'll leave that decision up to the enforcer and the situation.

Fact is many signs are not enforceable... like "Do not walk on grass" but 90% of the people with any moral fabric at all still obey them because their parents raised them correctly... and of course they do not like someone giving them a hard time when they know they are in the wrong.

There is no reason we can't have a sign and still do something else such as rubber bracelets.

At this point ANYTHING would be better than nothing at all. I'm also pretty sure Jayson (who is pretty creative) could have those signs made for less than $165 each. I think we really only need two (if we can get permission from Ft. Desoto... pretty sure that can happen. Both Jason and Scott have a good relationship with the rangers).

[TampaBay Noob]

I just think that a sign ALONE won't do a whole lot. I have morals like most and try to follow the rules, but there are many more who disregard them completely. I would have no objections to the sign if still enacting the band idea. In fact, I would encourage it. I just think, for new riders, the goal is really to fit in with the other kiters and make some new friends. Part of the "fitting in" process would be to get the band so they aren't looked at like a hazard to us all. They would be much more welcomed that way.

[bryanleighty]

but something is better than nothing..

if we post a sign then at least we can say to some new rider on the beach "hey.. this launch is for experience riders only.. did you read the sign?"


i still am wanting to get more ideas on how to make it more newbie-friendly.. but if we can get a sign at our local launches, thats a great great start.

Jay.. do you know if the rangers at Ft. Desoto would allow us to put one up if we can get one together? What about how to go about getting one at the skyway launches? Would that have to go thru the city?

[CrazyJay]

Skyway wouldn't really be an issue since the city doesnt claim it and the county doesnt want it. Also it isn't a "city park" so no issue there.
East Beach would take some negotiating with the rangers. Either I or Scott could talk to them about this. It definitely needs to be presented to them in the correct way. The city parks dept. has a rule against posting signs that we need to skirt somehow.

Maybe we could provide the sign, and Ft. Desoto would install it. I am about 90% sure that the head ranger would be happy to do this... he is a nice guy and has been concerned when people got hurt in the past... not because he wanted to ban us but because he actually cared. He was there when bayflite earned his name, so he knows our history. The worst thing that is going to happen is that he will say he can't do it because the city won't let him (legal reasons), and that's the end of it.

It's worth a shot. It's no secret that everyone rides there!

However, PLEASE nobody take it upon themselves to do this. Let Jay or Scott make the call if thats what we are going to do.

[Steve-O]

Interesting couple of days for all. There are some seasoned folks out there that I respect alot. May not always agree, but still have alot of respect for what they have witnessed over the years and what they are trying to accomplish today.

I did mention awhile back about posting some signs at these very same spots, but no one seemed to be very interested. I am glad to see that it may become a reality.

I agree 100% that either side of the Skyway is no place for someone to hone their skills after their lessons are complete. The signs for these areas should indicate intermediate to advanced riders only. Upwind ability is a must. Jumping close to shore should be avoided. Hazards of the skyway area should be posted.

As far as East Beach is concerned, a different approach should be taken. This is a great spot for someone to hone there skills. The experienced riding area should be defined. It should be suggested for new riders to walk way upwind of the riding area and start their walk again once they have reached the riding area. I don't feel East Beach should be labeled an intermediate to advance spot the way the Skyway should be labeled. Education is key. If are bands are used, then new riders should be told to approach someone with an armband for help and advice. Rules of the road should also be posted on signs. Parking should also be addressed. Wrapping lines. Common courtesy basically.

All instructors of the area should be on board with these policies and incorporate into their lessons educating their students on how to approach east beach and how not to ride the Skyway. I have done this since day one. This info is all covered again in a 2 hour session in the shop before a student even flies a kite. It is the ultimate ground school as it pertains directly to kiting in the bay area and keeping things safe. I hope more will follow this idea.

I will do my part to educate new riders before entering the water, but it will be ultimately up to the riders of the areas to see it all through. Especially when a visitor shows up or someone that has not taken lessons all that seriously.

We will have 6 PASA certified instructors on staff this upcoming season and two boats at our disposal. The majority of our lessons will take place out of site, with an occassional lesson at East Beach on light wind uncrowded days. We will educate riders about the dangers of the Skyway and promote East Beach as a training ground to hone one's skills. All with a good sound plan of course.....walk up wind, go out on less crowded days, know your limits, and practice safe and courteous kiting.

So for those clowns that show up at these launches and seem uneducated, I think these signs, and armbands will be a good step towards keeping it safe and coming together as a kiting community. I believe whatever is decided, anything will help. Doing nothing is the worst idea of all.

Please let me know if there is anything I can do.

Steve-O